1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Why no extensive break in required on OEM gears?

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016-2023)' started by Stocklocker, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. Dec 31, 2019 at 11:19 PM
    #1
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Member:
    #219125
    Messages:
    12,729
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    17TRDORDCSBAT
    Just an honest question cause I’m curious:

    When you install aftermarket Yukon or Nitro gears in your Tacoma there is a strict break-in process you need to accurately follow, including short periods of driving, periods of cooling down, and multiple oil changes, etc to break-in the aftermarket gears.

    While Toyota does recommend varying speeds and avoiding towing when the truck is brand new, the prescribed break-in for the OEM Toyota gears is nothing compared to the break-in required for aftermarket gears. There isn’t even an oil change required.

    What gives with that? Does Toyota break in the gears at the factory, or do they just make a higher tolerance gear set? Why the difference?
     
    loastad and GillyLink like this.
  2. Dec 31, 2019 at 11:23 PM
    #2
    Matmo215

    Matmo215 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Member:
    #197333
    Messages:
    7,647
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Matthew
    Waco, TX
    Vehicle:
    2015 Sport DCSB
    I’m pretty positive they are somewhat broken in from factory. Although, It’s not uncommon to see some metal shavings in a new diff after some miles
     
    GreyBaldTaco likes this.
  3. Dec 31, 2019 at 11:26 PM
    #3
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Member:
    #219125
    Messages:
    12,729
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    17TRDORDCSBAT
    Yes, but the various videos I’ve seen from Nitro and others seem to indicate you can burn your aftermarket gears up and void warranty if you do not do exactly what is required. I’m surprised at the contrast in recommendations. Certainly the OEM gears are known to last and probably 90% of stock truck owners don’t follow any break in recommendation.

    Maybe Toyota or their vendor can simply achieve a higher tolerance part than what Nitro or Yukon offers, requiring less break-in for proper mating?
     
    Matmo215[QUOTED] likes this.
  4. Dec 31, 2019 at 11:43 PM
    #4
    Ronzio

    Ronzio Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Member:
    #245114
    Messages:
    2,719
    Gender:
    Male
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    17 DCSB TRDOR
    OEM gears are lapped under the same pressure driving creates.
     
  5. Dec 31, 2019 at 11:44 PM
    #5
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Member:
    #219125
    Messages:
    12,729
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    17TRDORDCSBAT
    Aha. So they use a different manufacturing process that the aftermarket doesn’t possess?
     
  6. Dec 31, 2019 at 11:47 PM
    #6
    Tsinajinii

    Tsinajinii Black Wood Streak People

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Member:
    #133888
    Messages:
    1,662
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jamin
    AZ
    Vehicle:
    2011 DCLB 4x4 TRD Sport
    OME 885's paired to Bilstien 5100's, LR UCA's, OME Dakars w/ 5160's, Debadged Tailgate, TRD Stickers Removed, ARE Topper, Tailgate Theft Deterrent Mod, Mobtown Tailgate Skin, Light Bar in Hood Skewp, VIAIR OBA, Diaz Fabrication - T.H.R.B., Always on Cig. Outlet, BAMF behind the grill light mount with KC HiLites Pro Halogens, KC HiLites Flex ditch lights
    I’ve wondered this same thing myself. I wouldn’t be surprised if the manufacturing process from Toyota included a step like this:
    https://www.remchem.com/services/isf-process/
    Apparently, the “break-in” period is not necessary when this process is completed on a gear-set. I imagine Toyota (and the auto industry for that matter) would adopt this process or one similar as an industry standard.

    If money wasn’t an issue, I would have had this done to my gears (Nitro) prior to having them installed (along with cryogenic treatment). I went so far as to source a vendor that would be able to polish (and cryo treat) my gears. It was going to cost some money though...
    In the end, to be cost effective, I just had the gears installed and followed the break-in procedure. The shop that was able to do the treatments catered mostly to the racing community. My truck isn’t a trophy truck so I figured I’d save the coin and follow the instructions for break in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
    GillyLink, tcjacado, whatstcp and 2 others like this.
  7. Jan 1, 2020 at 8:21 AM
    #7
    Doobfucious

    Doobfucious I get it. It ain't makin' me laugh but I get it.

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Member:
    #304743
    Messages:
    444
    First Name:
    Doobie
    WNC -> Midwest
    Vehicle:
    2020 TRDOR DCSB 6MT
    Stock AF. My 68 Bronco and 2000 2.5RS get the mods.
    Thank you for the informative link! I've been paranoid, thinking and wondering about this while putting the 400 current miles on my truck. I clearly remember what i had to do breaking in the gears (twice) on the TJ i built. It was crazy to see how hot the iron diff cover would get during the first few trips! I mean like 200*F! drive 15 minutes in town, stop and cool. Again. Then two more times a litle longer and faster. Then keep the load light and speed under highway speeds for 500 miles. Change gear oil. Now you're good. That sucked but was worth every minute when the gears were silent with a beautiful wear pattern after 30,000 mi!

    Now, the requirement to break-in may be equally to do with the material and also the ratios we who re-gear for performance use. Think about the force- both direct pressure on the teeth and the slip along the face or root and then the increase in speed of all of that the pinion sees in a 4.56, 4.88 or 5.29 compared to a 3.00, 3.29, 3.42, 3.50. That pinion shrinks dramatically for a change like that. I know in the narrow width Dana/corporate realm, when you start getting really deep in ratios with high power, you sometimes get booted into full widths because that 400hp LS swap you did will happily rip off one of the whole 9 pinion teeth you have in your D44 when you're locked on 8psi in 4:1 4Lo and you get pissed off and start bouncing on rocks. A bigger axle gives those equally few teeth (because math is math) way more size and strength.

    I work in manufacturing and I think I'll have to ask around if the rear diff supplier comes around. The front ends are corporate, might be harder to get info. I know in real performance versions, the engine and rear diff have legitimate break-in formulated oils in them and have to be changed at 1500mi or so.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
    Tsinajinii[QUOTED] and SR-71A like this.
  8. Jan 1, 2020 at 8:25 AM
    #8
    jowybyo

    jowybyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Member:
    #116863
    Messages:
    6,092
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Joe
    Baltimore, MD
    Vehicle:
    '14 MGM DCSB Postrunner 4wd Conversion, Debadged
    I’m sure they heat cycle and run in the gears at the factory. There’s likely a end of line tester at the gear manufacturer that runs them in. The test setup is probably expensive, but the cost is spread out over all the trucks they make. Aftermarket companies probably don’t invest in the test equipment cause the volumes are much lower. Just speculating based on my experience in other high volume product manufacturing.
     
  9. Jan 1, 2020 at 8:27 AM
    #9
    ryan760

    ryan760 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2019
    Member:
    #294438
    Messages:
    1,510
    I wanna know why the diff whine doesn't set in for a few hundred/thousand miles.

    This is a mystery that has even Scooby Doo perplexed
     
  10. Jan 1, 2020 at 8:41 AM
    #10
    rick carpenter

    rick carpenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2019
    Member:
    #308623
    Messages:
    459
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Rick
    Huntsville, East Texas
    Vehicle:
    2019 SR5 2wd v6 DCLB for the win!
    I suspect it's a marketing thing. If Brand A needs a more extensive/precise break-in than Brand B, then that's buying decision. Today's I-want-it-right-now generation may think "Why should I have to do that? I wonder what else the factory hasn't done right?" Financially better for a mfr to do more at the factory to generate more/easier sales, plus it ensures break-in was done correctly to mitigate warranty issues.
     
  11. Jan 1, 2020 at 8:50 AM
    #11
    Doobfucious

    Doobfucious I get it. It ain't makin' me laugh but I get it.

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Member:
    #304743
    Messages:
    444
    First Name:
    Doobie
    WNC -> Midwest
    Vehicle:
    2020 TRDOR DCSB 6MT
    Stock AF. My 68 Bronco and 2000 2.5RS get the mods.
    I can't speak about the big issue with Tacomas but in the outside world, it takes that long for a less-than-perfectly-set ring and pinion to start making noise. That's why people think setting gears is a mystical, crazy thing. It's not. You just have to be precise or it will haunt you. It's easy to set gears to work and never break. Getting them to be silent isn't hard either. It's just really frustrating and time consuming. I know that rage and frustration very, very well. Dana and their case spreading and under-the-bearing shims... what a stupid design. Well, the shims will never slip out anyway. I have pics of patterns and a couple of main shims that were chewed through from a bad setup and not enough preload that allowed the shims to walk out. (The shims were not under the bearing which is actually not that bad of a thing if your case preload is to spec when done with a case spreader. They'll probably stay right there forever. Seriously though, just dremel out some bearings and make a setup set and do it right, for real. Don't get cheap or lazy here.)

    I learned to set gears because I trusted someone else more than myself. They screwed it up. I unscrewed it... with new gears and more money.

    Edit: I'm an illiterate idiot. You right, you right. What I missed was "gear manufacturer." People around here (not you) seem to think that Toyota makes every single part of the vehicle.

    All aftermarket gears that I've dealt with are very verbal about breaking them in properly and it's on you if you don't.

    I looked up the break-in on my truck and it covers it well if you know what's meant. It's not spelled out like the aftermarket companies do but if you know what's needed, it makes sense. No hard braking for 200mi (hinting at don't give it hell with the skinny pedal either), lower speeds, non-constant speeds and low loads for 500mi, no towing for 1000mi. with a more normal ratio and very controlled patterns and backlash, it makes sense.

    Sidenote- holy crap my MT has 4.30 gears though! Didn't expect that!
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  12. Jan 1, 2020 at 9:01 AM
    #12
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Member:
    #219125
    Messages:
    12,729
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    17TRDORDCSBAT
    Yes, but as reported here and elsewhere, the aftermarket gears cause the diff oil to go to extreme temps when breaking in. That is not true of a new Tacoma driven off the lot.
     
    Doobfucious likes this.
  13. Jan 1, 2020 at 9:16 AM
    #13
    Skydvrr

    Skydvrr IG: @kalopsianick

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2017
    Member:
    #229889
    Messages:
    12,654
    First Name:
    Nick
    YMH
    Vehicle:
    Black '17 OR

    Wasn't it speculated Toyota puts a lapping compound in the diffs? And that's why u get the sludge on the magnetic drain plug? I wonder if that plays a part on the diff howl, people changing their oil early etc.
     
  14. Jan 1, 2020 at 9:21 AM
    #14
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Member:
    #219125
    Messages:
    12,729
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    17TRDORDCSBAT
    If they put lapping compound in the oil I would suspect OEM to have higher temperatures than aftermarket during break in.

    The most plausible answer so far, at least to me, is what @Ronzio said, that the OEM gears are lapped at the factory under high pressure, which would possibly pre-treat the surface just as driving around does for aftermarket gears.
     
    tcjacado likes this.
  15. Jan 1, 2020 at 9:23 AM
    #15
    0xDEADBEEF

    0xDEADBEEF Swaying to the Symphony of Destruction

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2019
    Member:
    #285037
    Messages:
    19,644
    Vehicle:
    2000 reg cab 4x4 flatbed MT
    Not only are the volumes lower, they're spread out across the dozens of axles the aftermarket companies support. Having equipment for each of them would be ludicrous.
     
    Doobfucious and jowybyo[QUOTED] like this.
  16. Jan 1, 2020 at 9:37 AM
    #16
    jowybyo

    jowybyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Member:
    #116863
    Messages:
    6,092
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Joe
    Baltimore, MD
    Vehicle:
    '14 MGM DCSB Postrunner 4wd Conversion, Debadged

    Yea. Exactly what I was thinking.
     
  17. Jan 1, 2020 at 9:55 AM
    #17
    Itchyfeet

    Itchyfeet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2016
    Member:
    #183054
    Messages:
    9,117
    Yukon and Nitro are going up against a guy named Chet or Brain that just installed a set of gears in their square body chebby sitting on 37's with a potent 327 that came out of a wrecked Corvette. The warranty dept wants you to take it easy because said diffs were built on the kitchen table while the wife was at work. Don't worry he covered the table with Pizza Hut and Busch beer boxes, but the wife still came home and asked why the house smells like rancid gear oil. Welcome to America, there's a reason why Gorilla Glue is advertised on TV, because Chet's buddy John weighs about 300# and broke one of the bar stools. It took about a case and half of Busch to get er done and both men carried it out into the driveway, the install won't commence until football season is over
     
    Doobfucious and whatstcp like this.
  18. Jan 1, 2020 at 9:56 AM
    #18
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Member:
    #219125
    Messages:
    12,729
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    17TRDORDCSBAT
    It still does not explain why aftermarket gears make your diff housing smoking hot during break in and OEM doesn’t.
     
  19. Jan 1, 2020 at 9:58 AM
    #19
    Doobfucious

    Doobfucious I get it. It ain't makin' me laugh but I get it.

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Member:
    #304743
    Messages:
    444
    First Name:
    Doobie
    WNC -> Midwest
    Vehicle:
    2020 TRDOR DCSB 6MT
    Stock AF. My 68 Bronco and 2000 2.5RS get the mods.
    I stick magnets on the diff cover when I do axles. You should see the crap that comes out of them. I just changed the rear end oil in my (sold for Taco) Silverado and at 105k, you should have seen the fine sludge on the magnet... oof. There wasn't a thing wrong with it but it still makes me squirm. Not as bad as the goo on an automatic trans pan's magnet though.

    Another note is that there's likely some sort of schmutz for gear marking purposes left over in the gear oil too, if you are seeing some kind of coloration. I use yellow usually, white is common too and that'll really quickly blend into the slurry of gear oil.
     
    Skydvrr[QUOTED] likes this.
  20. Jan 1, 2020 at 10:04 AM
    #20
    Itchyfeet

    Itchyfeet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2016
    Member:
    #183054
    Messages:
    9,117
    They know Chet is going to set them up wrong, so better tight vs loose
     
    Doobfucious likes this.

Products Discussed in

To Top