What actually CAUSED the famous, Toyota frame rust problem???

10600 trucks wasn't random. $84.8 million / $8000 per truck = 10600 trucks.

If buyback or frame replacement cost $16k instead of $8k, then the number of vehicles is reduced to 5300.

Read my previous post again. The calculations assumed Toyota took on 70% of the cost while Dana contributed 30%. If Dana actually took on a larger share of the cost, then the number of vehicles is reduced even further.

The fact of the matter is, if buybacks/frame replacement were as frequent as you believed, then the cost would quickly spiral to billions of dollars. For publicly traded companies like Toyota and Dana, that would show up in their financial reports. I don't recall seeing this.

The mostly likely scenario is that the overwhelming majority of Tacoma owners had frames that passed inspection, and only a tiny percentage had the truck bought back or frame replaced. The tiny percentage then comes on TW and talks about it...

 

Soooo...I'm looking at used Tacomas here on the Left Coast (SoCal)...is there a best practice/quick reference guide for checking a frame in my 2001/2004 DC quest?

 

^Check visually for rust on frame, esp. the boxed sections.

Trucks operated in SoCal tend to be rust-free. So if you run a CarProof/Autocheck on the VIN and found it has always been registered in SoCal, chances are it's OK. If it's been registered in a northern state, pay closer attention.

 

Awesome...thanks for the heads up. END thed jck.

 

So I'm guessing 10-15,000 was not the number of rusty Tacoma's recalled.

From Car & Driver:


690,000 Toyota Tacomas Recalled for Leaf Springs that Could Snap, Damage Fuel Tank and Brake Line



In November 2012, Toyota recalled 150,000 Tacomas from 2001–2004 for a rusted spare-tire carrier under the bed that could break and cause the tire to come loose. In 2008, Toyota’s infamous frame-rot fiasco on 1995–2004 Tacomas (about 800,000 trucks) was so bad the company had to buy many of them back, conduct extensive frame repairs, and/or extend frame-corrosion warranties by 15 years. The company never issued a recall for that problem.

They sold a lot of these vehicles, look at the numbers on any of their recalls.

Do a search on Toyota recalls.

These years of Tacomas had bad frames, much worse than older Toyotas, and much worse than almost all other trucks, there was something wrong with them. Toyota is not known to be Santa Claus, they don't do recalls unless they have to. The steel was junk, very bad quality.
My 2002 is excellent, it was rust proofed every year with Krown since new, and is used in a high salt environment. My previous truck was an 87 Dakota, the frame was still good when I sold it at 23 years old, no rustproofing. The brake lines rotted off 4 times though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gxK3vFNyYxQ

Don

 

The above video shows why Toyota was so nice to people in replacing trucks and frames, imagine having a bunch of people in the truck and having your frame cave while meeting a school bus. Cha ching.

I thought the recall was something like 250,000 trucks but I couldn't find a real number. But how many do you think were recalled?

Don

 

Stay away from a truck bought from the salt belt through an auction. Even in Southern California there are rusted frames. 1 4runner that I took a look at had a rusted frame, a-arms, turns out he was snow boarder and never washed the frame when he came back from his trip. Another low mileage tacoma had rust all over, he was a surfer and refused it was rust. He went as far as spraying the worse parts with black paint.

So buyer beware....Due diligence and never buy a car at night. Good Luck

 

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/general-automotive/329156-chevy-frame-rust.html

 

Read up on the TSB and the various letters to customers. The dealer inspects the frame for rust holes. If the frame passes, it gets sprayed and gets the warranty extended to 15 years. If the frame fails, the frame is either replaced or the truck bought back at 150% KBB. The number of Tacomas campaigned for frame rust was the entire 1st gen production run sold in northern states.

10-15,000 is the estimated number of vehicles actually bought back or had frame replaced, based on the dollar figures reported in news articles.

 

It's all about the steel chemistry, cutting corners and using a high carbon/ low chromolly fomulation wiil rust quickly. Some steels such as Corten and steel used on bridges and water towers will rust,but it will take a hundred years or more. The only way to be sure is copare the actual steel used by the differant mfgs.

 

^Steel used for buildings and bridges are just as vulnerable to rust. They withstand decades of use because they have very low strength (1/4-1/3 the strength of steel in truck frames). Much thicker sections are used, so they can tolerate more rust without compromising strength. Certain truck parts like spindles and front diff mounts are also designed this way - they leave the factory unpainted and start rusting right on the dealer's lot, but function just fine. Can't make the frame out of the same material, or the truck will be too heavy to move.

Even the higher-grade aircraft-quality steel such as AMS6360 chromoly will rust quickly when exposed to the elements. All the corrosion protection comes from surface conversion treatments and paint/plating, and that's where Toyota/Dana cut corners.

It's unfortunate because the other parts of the truck (body seams, exhaust pipes, brake lines, etc.) which borrow mfg technology from Toyota cars have seen significant improvements in corrosion protection over the years. It was common to see pre-Taco pickups with big rust holes in the bed and above the wheel arches. Don't see any Tacos afflicted with those.

 

Sorry to bump a second page thread, but I was wondering, did every 01-04 Tacoma get the voluntary frame undercoating/frame replacement notice? I am somewhat astounded by the way my frame has held up being for Pennsylvania, and I am unsure if I either got a new frame, or that the frame I have wasn't one of the ones "recalled". I checked my service history of my truck on Toyota.com, the only service shown prior to my ownership of the truck was back in 2005 when the ball joints were recalled and replaced... I figured if the frame was coated/replaced there would be record. There is no residual coating that I have seen from others pictures.

 

I have an '03 and got a recall notice. I couldn't find any thing wrong and the inside of my frame feels smooth where I can stick my finger inside. I did get the ball joint replacement and tire hanger fixed.

So deduct one from that 690,000.

 

Ok, some people are saying Dana did this and Dana didn't do that. Dana was just a scapegoat so that Toyota ended up looking good- "Hey look at us, we're buying back unsafe vehicles and replacing frames on others, we stand by our products, come and buy more." Toyota knew what they did, they spec'd out the frame design and materials, not Dana. The frame in my truck was replaced, and I'm thankful for that, but I do not believe the composition of the steel is any different, and they certainly did not coat the new frame. When I got my truck back, I removed the bed, the bumpers I already had off before the swap, and I coated the inside and outside of the frame with a wax based coating from Eastwood- I hope it lasts.

 

^These manufacturer/supplier issues are never cut-and-dry. Most likely Toyota defined the requirements (i.e. "frame must last xx years against corrosion perforation" or "frame must withstand xx hours of salt spray per test standard ABCDE-123") while Dana came up with its own processing/plating technique to meet that requirement. Whether it's a case of Toyota's requirement being not good enough or Dana having process deviations/shortcuts, we'll never know.

Dana declared bankruptcy around the time of the campaign (2008-2009) due to the bankruptcy at GM and near-bankruptcy at Chrysler. The selling of the frame business to Metalsa was part of the bankruptcy proceedings. The $25 million Dana paid Toyota in 2011 to settle the frame claims could be a small portion of the total cost, which would mean either a) Toyota internally took the majority of the blame or b) that's all Toyota was able wring out of the "new" Dana, which would legally be a different company after bankruptcy.

 

Sound advice. Coastal vehicles can be some real rust buckets and auction vehicles are always a crap shoot. It's also kind of amazing to me how so many people are reluctant to look underneath a vehicle before buying it. I've brought a floorjack and a stand to look at used cars before.

 

Nothing against you Snowman, but I would have to disagree. In my little town and in the larger area of Spokane these are literally the most common vehicle sighted. The Rangers seemed to have some of the best frames made, most of the ones I see are the 93-99 models and some of the 80s models and they looks pretty darn good and we see a fair amount of salt in the winter months. The Dakotas I always see have much worse issues than frame rot, *cough transmission cough Magnum 5.2L (leaky POS) cough*.

 

My 2005 AC will be getting a new frame this month (Thankfully). I was told by the service manager that lubricant is required while bending the steel in the metal breaks used to make the frames. He said Dana failed to remove the lubricant properly before applying the rust inhibiting coating, so it didn't last. Any thoughts as to the truth behind this?

 

I was just in Seattle and experienced your terrible "winter" in february. haha it was 50-60 degrees both days.
Dont know if you have been to the east coast where we get about 5 months of actual winter, but there are very few older vehicles left. Going through BC and Washington I saw so many older cars and trucks (and tons of VW buses for some reason)

 

The 99 tacoma I just sold I purchased in 2006 from Kenosha, WI. I had the frame tested twice and it tested out fine, just normal surface corrosion. That being said, right after selling the 99 I bought a 2003 Taco. My question is that 15 year "silent recall" for the frame rust still valid? If so are they still buying them back or just replacing the frames? Mine seems to look ok because the previous owner had it coated with spray on bed liner stuff but there are some spots and I think a lot of the bad ones rusted from the inside out. Anyone happen to have a link to the gen 1 frame recall literature?