Welding on Sliders, what welder to use?

Hey guys,

I tried using the search function but couldn't quite find the information I was looking for.

Just bought some 4xinnovations weld on sliders for my '09 Taco, and am concerned about what welder I should use. I have access to a 220v arc welder, and a 110v mig welder, gasless. I'm worried that the 110v mig may not get enough penetration to make the welds strong, but welding with the stick would be more difficult than the mig.

I'm decent in both forms of welding, but better with the mig. What do you guys think?

Thanks!

 

If you're good with both I would suggest the stick. I would never recommend flux especially for a component that's gonna take a beating.

 

Can I ask why you don't recommend flux? Just trying to learn more about it.

 

Flux is messy, has a lot of splash, and in my opinion is not as strong or clean of a weld. As far as I'm concerned, I won't ever use flux for something that needs to be strong or looking nice. If you can, get a bottle for your welder and use a gas mig. I have never used a stick welder but I know they are good welders so I would use that over flux any day.

 

I'm not concerned with splash and splatter with flux. As long as my bead looks alright I'm fine with it! All I really care about is the strength of the weld.

 

The flux has little to do with strength. The machine , welder, wire, and at times the gas will dictate that.

Stick welding will be another beast. 6010-6011 will spark like gas less flux core. Good weld and will pen fine . 6013 should be a hard no. 7018 is best but requires a small amount of skill / seat time to run it out of position.

 

So I mocked up the sliders to the frame, tacked the legs on the slider and plates using my mig. From there I moved them to the bench and started welding with the stick welder using a 7018 rod. Some of my welds look alright, and some are ugly booger welds, but I'm getting a good burn! You can see the heat marks (not sure what the actual term is) on the backside of the plates. I only got one slider welded together though. Ran out of time, since we also spent a few hours sighting in our rifles and practicing for our elk hunting trip.

If you want to make fun of my amateur welding skills, I can post pictures this weekend. I warn you though, some welds are butt ugly!

 

Nice. 3/32" rod will be your friend if you're going that route. And stay out of the center of the joint as you weld .Good luck!

 

What do you mean to stay out of the center of the joint?

I should learn to stick weld. I would also love to learn to Tig as well.

 

So how the sliders meet the frame makes a V, when welding them move the rod from edge to edge, pausing on the sides to fill the metal. Since you cross over the middle twice in one pass it's easy for heat to build up and for it to get a bit droopy

 

I would have just flux cored it, you will blow through the frame easily with either of them if you aren't careful.

 

Why wouldn't you use the same motion as if you were mig welding? More heat with stick?

 

So no data on the welder or material thickness but set on max and go? That is a hard NO.

Nothing wrong with flux provided you have a welder that has enough amperage to get the penetration required. Most people with flux have a piece of shit and no money to buy a gas setup. That is a problem with their welder being underpowered and low quality and nothing to do with the strength of flux core as a process.

How did you determine if 3/32 is the appropriate rod size? You need to determine rod size based on materials used. Since I can guess at the plate size and frame thickness you may be right but I would seat of the pants also consider 1/8” and likely use that unless the materials are thin and then I would go to a smaller dia. rod.

***************************


Not trying to be a dick and bust balls but to answer welding related questions some data is required and not simply guessing. Personally I don’t think the OP should be making structural welds unless he has the confidence in his abilities and knows what he is doing. If you aren’t experienced in out of position stick welding then hire someone who does. Any monkey can weld flat plate but once you do vertical it takes a bit of practice and a different technique. For someone with limited experience like the OP I would do a root of mig flux and then do my stick uphill. The other option is multiple pass mig flux but once again some training and practice is require to know where to place each bead.

 

Not a technique to practice on your frame. I actually didn’t have a clue WTF you were speaking of until you described it. I would still do a root before an uphill weave. It does take practice and not something to try and learn while structurally welding and on thinner materials.

The reason for holding is to prevent undercutting. The puddle will drag across the center but you still need a good root or risk poor penetration in the center.

 

Sure. I have no issue explaining. Most plate used for making the brackets on sliders is around 3/16". The reason for 3/32 is because it's not going to make him Carry as much metal in a pass as 1/8" , which experience would help with that.

Regarding staying out of the center, don't know what to tell you?

And busting balls and guessing at answers...not here to tell the OP what to do. Mainly just giving info on how it can get done. How he wants to do it is up to him. And so far there's been no guessing, as the advice has been accurate.

There's different motions for different processes, and also within the same process depending on what you're doing and the position you're welding in. The side to side is mainly used when going uphill with the weld because you're carrying heat as you go and as the member mentioned can lead to undercut of the base metal.

For ex I'll be welding tube all night and will use a different motions half way through the same pass. All job dependant.

 

And @Exracer2 isn't wrong. If you're not comfortable by all means get some help.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't use stick at all. Gas shielded Flux, make sure everything is clean. Downhill 7018 has next to no penetration, and going uphill with it, you have a higher chance of blow through, especially on the thinner metals you'll be working with and no experience. Stay away from 6010, it's a dig rod, and will cause a ton of spatter, and higher chance of blowing through than even 7018 does.

Gas Shielded Flux Core, using C25 gas @ 18psi. I don't know your welder settings, so can't suggest anything (most welders have a guide within the door that will give you rough estimates on what temps to use depending on base metal thickness and wire thickness) . I've seen those little shop A B C D E setting welders, never used one, and even I would need to look at the guide to figure out where to set the machine. Gas Shielded Flux is an extremely clean weld, no spatter, almost just as strong as 7018, but with lesser chance of blowing through. Aim your nozzle at roughly a 15 degree upward angle, and down hill weld it. Make sure your puddle doesn't out flow your movement speed so you don't get slag inclusions. You may need to do 2 passes on it (letting it sit for 15 minutes after welding it so you don't over heat the base metal causing it to be weaker) . As your 1st pass will most likely be in a concave shape.

Hit up a practice piece first until you get the hang of it. Dont' want to be learning how to do this on your actual vehicle. Also, unplug your battery on your truck beforehand.

 

Thank you for the advice, everyone. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get out to the barn to do any welding over the weekend, since me and the lady had to take care of wedding planning stuff. I may not get to the frame welding until later this month, since hunting season will interfere. But I should be able to finish welding the legs to the sliders this coming weekend, and I'll practice my out of position welding and vertical welds on some scrap I have laying around before I move to the frame. Good thing is I'm in no rush to get them on, so I have plenty of time to practice and go slow!

 

I've got a Millermatic 35 that I weld with. I use gas and 0.35 wire. To weld the posts and the feet I set it at 3/32 and to weld to the frame i set it at 4/45. I've gotten excellent results. It's not how your weld looks, it's about penetration and actually riding the pieces together. Here's a pic of my last set of 4xinnovations square tube sliders, first set of square, I've done quite a few sets of round.

 

Why didn't you weld all the way around the plates on the frame?