Upgrade sound system keeping stock head unit

Looks like you upgraded a JBL system. He was asking about a non-JBL system. Nice setup though. Great job.

 

Besides the amp I don’t see a problem with the equipment, other than there’s kind of a big difference between front and rear speakers. I’m assuming the rear speakers are powered by the radio. Alpine R speakers can sound pretty good if you amp and EQ them a little.

You didn’t describe what your complaint is exactly, just compared it to a previous system. If I were to guess, I’d say it’s too bright or harsh sounding (based on tweeter composition and what you listen to). What did you set the tweeter output level to on the crossovers? My default position would have been -3dB.

The Deici series speakers have PEI tweeters, so make sure those are aimed away from your listening position. Fabric diaphragm tweeters have a softer smoother quality, but even with Teloton tweeters, I ended up installing component speakers in the rear of my Tacoma so I could aim the tweeters more to the rear and away from the front because the passenger rear speaker just nagged at my right ear with a coaxial in the factory location.

About that amplifier. Let’s be honest, it’s a euphemism to call it budget. I think you should upgrade this, but I also think you should get a nice compact 4 channel. Soundigital makes decent sounding compact amplifiers, obviously I like the Audio Control ACM amps, I think Rockford makes something with an on board DSP that might do. I’m just not sure about what kind of power will satisfy your expectations.

So right now my recommendation is to move your amplifier, make an amp board under the passenger seat or something, run good copper 8AWG power and ground, run a 4 channel T-harness and mount your LoC and amp there. Set it up for a potential upgrade. Check the tweeter output setting on your crossovers, and confirm the tweeter aim on the rear coaxials. The rear output on the factory radio is almost all midrange and high frequency so that’s the best you can do, with no EQ it won’t sound full back there.

Make sure your gain structure isn’t shitty and live with it for a bit to see if there’s enough improvement to keep, or if it’s necessary to balance the power more and add better EQ control.

 

My bad.

 

Great suggestions. I guess the problem I have is that when the volume is turned up, the sound kind of flattens out and loses clarity. I believe your right about the amp. I had an NVX amp in my previous system and I thought it sounded great although it was twice as powerful. Maybe it was just a better made amp. All the speakers are powered by the amp. I also have no way to EQ the system either which was one of the things my previous Pioneer HU had. It had all the bells and whistles in that respect. I do have the amp powered with 8 AWG wire to the battery.

I guess i will have to mount my amp and LOC under the seat as you suggested. I just didn't want to start filling the cab with a bunch of electronics but under the passenger seat is space that is unused and will probably never be used. Guess I'll searching on here for DIYs on peoples setups.

You mentioned aiming the tweeters on the Hertz speakers. How do I accomplish this? Also, you mentioned the FIX in your previous post. Seems like that would help me to EQ my system. Is this correct?

 

The NVX amplifier you linked is a two channel amplifier. So…. maybe that isn’t the actual amplifier?

You’ll have to verify, but some coaxial speakers have the ability to aim the tweeter by twisting its housing. My Hertz HiEnergy speakers had this ability so probably more of their product lines do as well.

Yeah, a JL FiX would give you a 10 band output EQ for each channel. It would also function as a LoC, and flatten the factory output EQ as well as any necessary signal time alignments. I’m not sure which OEM radio you have or what its output details are, probably similar to my 2020 but maybe not exact.

The improvement I was able to achieve on mine, especially after switching to a digital signal is remarkable so I have no reservations about recommending them.

 

To do this you need the FIX 82 correct?

And I linked the wrong amp
NVX VADM4

 

Yeah the 82 has a digital optical output, the 86 does not. Consider that this means you need either a DSP or amplifier that not only accepts a digital optical input, but can also expand/route the two channels into 4 or however many you need. You consequently lose fader control as well.

I can confirm that you can send audio through the optical digital and the L/R analog low voltage outputs concurrently, however. That’s how I created a separate full range output to use as a signal for my Epicenter.

 

Very useful thread.

Think I'm going to go the KeyLoc route for the final piece of my "thought this was going to be a budget build" build. Here's a clip from 5 star agreeing with what most people here are saying which is that the sock HU is the main hurdle.

Should be time marked but if not the relevant part starts around 26:44

https://youtu.be/YWOdvXbN7dM?t=1604


On the other hand after reading some HU reviews it seems just having a working reliable HU that does is not lag, has a volume knob, interfaces with the camera well, reliably pairs with a phone over BT (albeit no android auto), includes HD and satellite (don't use it but I like to have the option as long as I have the fin antenna), has a mostly visible screen with good dimmer setting and accurately keeps time is, according to my research, a small miracle. It's basically the perfect HU except for the audio part...

 

See a lot of love for the Pioneer HU on TW Just curious, why not the Sony ES 10.1“ screen? It is a floater, so maybe that's why? I've always really liked Sony stuff - they seemed to always have the best bang for the buck, but they aren't really being talked about here. Is there any particular reason for that? Do I have to fall out of love w Sony?

 

Speaking for myself, I've used Pioneer head units, along with Kenwood, since the beginning. Pioneers will give you a clean signal all the way to max volume most of the time, and that's a good thing when you want to add amps to your stereo.
Sonys were junk back in the day. Now, just for reference, back in the day to me is when I first started installing car stereos 35 years ago.

 

IMO, early 2000's was peak sony car audio. their Xplod stuff was everywhere, and many people ran full setups of it. but feature-wise, their gear always was lacking even then, and they always seemed to push for novelty colors/features/lights over actual functionality. or if it had the feature, they tended to bury it in sub-menu's to the point that might as well not even have the feature anyways.

i liked the colors and the novelty of much of the Xplod series. but the problem with novelty is that it wears off.

that's why i built a Xplod clock. works just as well on the wall as it did for a subwoofer!


my first rule with radio's has always been that i should be able to find and access about 3/4's of all it's features without having to do special button presses, or cracking open the manual to figure out the sequence to get to the menu. pioneer and kenwood's have always just worked for me. crossover frequency, crossover slope, eq, fader, i can get to all of those in most units without needing even think about it.

alpine and sony have always buried anything more than 'fader' and 'bass' and 'treble' under sub menus that i still don't exactly know how to get into.

i've got a sony radio, an old Xplod chameleon series.


got it for free with a used car somewhere along the line. i've used it from time to time, finally lost the wiring harness a few years ago, still have the radio, but it's never been more than a novelty. for a radio, it's pretty crappy, and even my oldest cheapest pioneer blew it out of the water on audio features...


i'm not saying that you can't run sony, just answering your question as far as why no one really talks about or uses sony. just helped a guy a few months ago re-wire a full sony setup on the 86 forums, he used their newer touch screen and their competition-level component speakers. said he was really happy with them, but IMO, the price was significantly higher in terms of specs than competing brands.

 

Nice clock Greatly appreciate the reply, and it makes sense. It is quite possible my ears were influenced by the lower price tag on some of the old kit, haha. You bring valid points, and I appreciate that. I've been looking at that Pioneer deck on Crutchfield,on advice from another thread. The fitment is spot on. I think I will be doing considerably more reading, but full system replacement really does seem the best route to take.

 

Yeah these are nice, had one for a while but took out cause I found a totaled 2021 with JBL Apple carplay and just love the stock look. But the pioneer honestly is nice for aftermarket “stock” look and the screen is BIG.

 

I have the kicker hs10 powered sub with stock (non JBL) head. All plug and play! To get the clearest bass and best sound, splice into the front door speakers, not the rear. This completely bought the head unit to life. I still have no need to replace any other speakers!

-original bass head from the 80's

 

Trouble shooting option: get a 3.5mm (headphone jack) to RCA cable and use that to plug a phone into the amp to bypass the HU and hear how things sound.

According to this keyloc review Entune has a 8db treble boost which explains a lot for me, not exactly sure how that jives with the posted frequency profiles but seems consistent. They recommend tuning the keyloc at 45 volume.


Update: After trying out the keyloc my opinion is that it does not do much for the stock HU, tames the high end a bit which is good but it also flattens out the bass which made my kicker subbox pretty anemic where it really punches on the stock HU so go figure.

FWIW Kicker customer support is pretty fantastic as is Crutchfield's. The kicker subbox (https://www.crutchfield.com/p_20648CF124/Kicker-48CDF124.html) kills it using an amp on the stock HU EQ. Unfortunately I'm finding that while the KS speakers are well built, very loud and sound good overall the KS are not giving me the detail in the high frequencies I'm looking for on a handful of tracks in addition to requiring a rather high crossover fq but they work fine for most stuff.

Basically as far as I can tell from spending too much time on the stereo project the options on the Tacoma for a exceptional sound system are a new HU, or a professionally tuned DSP (not the keyloc), or spend months finding the perfect speakers with subdued tweeters that can work with the very specific EQ of the stock HU. I'm going to give RF a try.

 

Okay folks here's what you need for an access cab...

Rockford Fosgate T1675-S
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575T1675S/Rockford-Fosgate-T1675-S.html
Good detailed tweeters that mellow nicely over time, excellent midrange (basically mid woofers), but very difficult install you'll have to run your own wires and will need a soldering iron, crimpers, heat shrink, panel removal tool, wire worm, etc. etc.
Here's a good deal on great

KabelDirekt – Pure Copper Stereo Audio Speaker Wire & Cable – Made in Germany – 14 AWG Gauge – 100 feet – (for HiFi Speakers and Surround Sound Systems, Pure Copper, with Polarity Markings)

speaker wire...you'll need that too.

If you want an easier install get the Kicker KS, their pre-wired light-weight crossover can be velcroed to the foam on the plastic door panel, the speakers connections plug right into the crossover (huge bonus), just plug the crossover to the factory speaker wiring going to the factory tweeter. The tweeters a bit bright on the stock HU IMHO and they loose some detail if there's a lot of competing high frequencies but they are very loud and sound really good on most stuff, a sub with the Kickers KS is required.


Kicker 48CDF124
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_20648CF124/Kicker-48CDF124.html
As I mentioned above this box sounds fantastic on the stock HU and just barley fits in the back (fits a tad better with the rear center console removed).

And an amp, I'm using discontinued Alpine MPV-f300 (I think) 50 watts RMS with 150 amps bridged for the sub. If I were buying an amp today I would get a RF, kenwood, or the kicker 5 star seems to install a lot of - probably 100 watts RMS (the subbox can handle 200 watts just keep the gain low...doubt you'll need much gain at all on the stock HU).

Also you'll want to buy from Crutchfield, they're customer service is unspeakably awesome however it's worth mentioning that sales will usually steer you towards speakers that are easier to install like the Kickers or Polk DBs which if fine.

It sound great however a new HU would sound better, the DAC on the stock HU is the weakest link now and no FLAC, but I've got all the goodies that the stock HU has. I wish the Sony AX-4000 had two camera inputs maybe the anytime camera would work if I go that route. I like the minimal interface, the "analog" clock looks dam cool to me.

Anyway I'm officially _finally_ happy with my sound system, many thanks to all the audio pros here on Tacomaworld most of whom appear in this thread.

With that...so long! I reckon I'm packing my dog up and moving into my truck, it sounds that good now.