The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

I agree with using an actual round or rectangle headlight or even building him something that uses a Morimoto projector. But it doesn't fit the style he is after and I have tried convincing him of that. lol

Wow! Thank you for those illustrations! I absolutely agree that a fog light is not a replacement for a headlight. But compared to a pair of 6" Amazon LED flood light bars mounted vertically, the HXB Wide or SS3 Fog light would be much better for his visibility and more considerate to other drivers.

You know, I didn't even think about plow lights! Great idea!! I've tried to convince him to run an actual round headlight, rectangle headlight, 90mm headlight like buses have and even offered to build a set of projectors with a custom bucket that would be very discrete. But it seems like he is choosing style over function. I guess we'll see when he gets it on the road if he reconsiders. I'd love to build something for him since I like tinkering!

HAHA!!! I wasn't trying bait anyone, but it worked! I appreciate that this thread (and crash's other lighting threads) is absolutely focused on the technical data and hard facts instead of hearsay. I'd venture to say that threads are more detailed and technically accurate than most threads on the Candle Power Forums... At the very least far more entertaining, those guys really take it to a different level of scrutiny and absoluteness if thats a word. Which I appreciate since it's good learning, but they have very little leeway for anything other than OEM.

 

maybe try and buy a set of headlights from Rivian?

 

Hella offers some new 90mm downward firing LED-into-reflector headlamps, that are supposed to be quite good. A little closer to old parabolic reflector headlamps than a projector type or lightbar/pod.

 

it will be certainly better than Amazon whatever random lamps.

Based on INAPPROPRIATELY adopted as low beam, I put data in LB2V ( typical modern low beam regulation table) to see level of not-ok-ness and ok-ness as near to mid distance illuminator.
All lamps are set at 0.601m ( 24" high scenario)
Aimed as high as possible to prevent glare limit exceed LB2V table.

In low beam application, down-road distance visibility is defined at 0.6D 1.3R ( 0.6 degree down, 1.3 degree to the right from HV=beam center)
But all of these lamp aren't low beam, not showing any useful brightness,

so I used one mid-distance range 1.5D 2R point as around mid-distance visibility point. ( green highlighted)
and foreground point ( 4D 4R) ( red highlighted)

As you may notice, 4D 4R is capped at 12500Cd max allowance, this is because,,, too much foreground illuminance really kills distance vision.


Aim requirement was
4B HXB 3D NCS 2.5D SS3 Pro 5D SS3 max 3.7D
Then, at least it won't cause severe glare compare to low beam regulation




Then, I have data point to road illumination translation chart that I made.

This chart input data is
lamp height 24"It's not easy for many to comprehend full data, so just picked up 2 points, and see the relationship between mid-distance road illuminance vs foreground illuminance.

At lamp height is 24' =0.61m, 1.5D result in 29.97m from lamp ( about 75')
4D result in 8.46m from lamp ( about 28')

** it is important to define lamp height, and proper aim to calculate like this, for example if lamp is 0.8m from the ground, 1.5D reaches to 30.6m (100')


Anyways,,, continue to

For example, NCS mid distance point calculated 18.2lux at 22.97m ( about 75'), and 117 lux at 8.46m ( about 28')
This means you are seeing nearby ground at 6.4 times more illuminance than 75' point.

Look at SS3 max in comparison
13.8 lux at 75' point, and 221lux at 28'
This means you are seeing nearby ground at 16 times stronger illuminance than 75' point.

In other word, you are seeing the 75' distance point 16 times less intensity compare to 28', this is what is called TOO much foreground NO good
the reason LB2V table regulate maximum foreground allowance.

Then, I made up some parameter,, ( I made up, not any kind of established method, but I think it demonstrate well to my knowledge!!)

Ratio between mid point (4d 4R to 1.5D 2R) ( this shows relative strength of 1.5D point = 75' in this case compare to 4D Foreground point)
Then multiply by 1.5D point road illuminance ( put absolute number difference in consideration) to illustrate what lamp's illumination balance can be








Now, some may notice,,
HXB peak intensity is about 21,000Cd and NCS is about 14,000 HXB is 50% brighter ( in narrow terms of ,,just peak intensity talk)
but distance impression is only 9% better with HXB
SS3 Max is about 19000Cd 36% more intense peak than NCS, but distance impression is far less than NCS at only 30% ish.


When talk about FUNCTIONAL fog lamp, this is something important to look at.


And long story short,
if someone INAPPROPRIATELY want to use one of those fog or wide lamp as low beam like usage, with understanding of you won't get any safe distance illuminance impression, maybe 4B NCS is one of better choice, but certainly avoid SS3 Pro
SS3 Pro have to be aimed so low, likely bracket won't even allow to aim that low ( use smartphone level to see what is 5 degree downward aim look like 5D = 26" drop at 25' distance)



Ultimately,,
get proper quality low beam module if you can. It really makes difference.

 

That would be amazing! But I bet those are $1500+ ea! Doubt he is will to spend that! lol

Nice! I'll have to give those a gander. Morimoto released some not too long ago too, but I haven't really looked into them yet.

WOW! You sir are a wealth of knowledge and data!! I want to thank you for all the time, effort and info you have presented here! It's especially appreciate it since this is really just theoretical discussions and many engineers or lighting professionals would have just left this topic untouched. Honestly, I think this data is actually useful and helpful for many when they are choosing between lamps for actual fog light use since most Tacoma's and 4Runners (really most trucks) fog lights sit somewhere close to the 24" height.

I completely agree with all of you are saying and I like the way you put this "level of not-ok-ness and ok-ness as near to mid distance illuminator"! I think I'm going to let him figure out for himself how bad the vertical Amazon lightbar setup is and go from there to see what he wants to do. If it were mine, I'd be using buckets with Retrobrights or mount an NHK or Morimoto LED projector into a housing of some type and waterproof it. I think it would be cool to use an old oil can or something vintage like that to fit the style.

I know we get off topic on all of these lighting threads pretty consistently, I'm as much to blame as anyone else about it...Sorry! What would you guys think about starting a General Vehicle Lighting Q&A thread? @Yoshi I and @crashnburn80, what do you guys think about that? I know you guys have busy lives and keeping track of another thread would be more work, but it may help keep the other lighting threads on track better. I'd absolutely be involved in the thread, though not from a hard data stand point like you guys are able to provide.

 

We have a general automotive lighting thread, it just never got much traction.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/automotive-lighting-101.534393/

I don't think small side-tangents are a big deal with the topic being somewhat around SAE compliance. Aux low beams have come up a few times, but with J582 discontinued and no lights in production to support it, it ends up being somewhat of a homeless topic, so discussions in the SAE threads seem reasonable to me.

 

I've been lurking on this thread for a little while now. I'm deciding between the Morimoto 4banger and DD SS3s for use as an on-road fog light.
To try to summarize the above posts, it seems like this is how they would be ranked for on-road fog use. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
1. 4banger NCS
2. SS3 Max
3. 4banger HXB
4. SS3 Sport
5. SS3 Pro

Do we somewhat agree? I understand this might be different if it was for off-road use.

 

Welcome to the forum! The purpose of a fog light is to illuminate the edges of the roadway in low visibility conditions at low speeds. For this purpose the SS3s do a better job than the 4bangers as their beam pattern is wider with more light intensity to the sides. For the SS3s I’d suggest Sport or Max in selective yellow. Note that the sports will not be hot enough to melt snow if that is important in your region.

 

SS3 pro/Max did not passed the SAE J583 F function validation due to gradient were not enough.
Therefor, they aren’t SAE compliant fog

Beam illumination ( photometry) itself can be ok to pass test as long as aimed low enough.

haven’t took data of SS3 sport, but sport uses ZES emitter that is same emission vertical height as HXB emitter, this highly likely result in same gradient issue. But I would say it has better chance to be compliant as SAE Fog.




If you select SS3 Max or Sport, make sure to aim lamp at least 4.5 degree down ( To aim cutoff line to be 4" lower than lamp center at 25' distance) = beam center brightest point must be 23.5" below lamp height
This is proper aiming protocol SAE defines, at this aim, both SS3 Sport and Max can satisfy photometry table itself of J583 F function. And will not cause glare.

Unfortunately, since there is no visual gradient can be used for aiming, I suggest using "level" to guide general aiming angle. Use smart phone level feature or small compact level, using front flat surface of lamp to aim around 4.5 degree or lower, than visually match right and left to touch up shall gives proper aiming.

Check to see if bracket allows to aim as low as 4.5 degree down, if it can't be aimed low enough, then shall not be used on the road.



Have you consider Elite ? ( I am not sure if they have in your application tho,, )
They are SAE F3 function fog, it actually have well defined cutoff line, can be aimed visually, and adequate illumination. Lack of width is struggle, but for on road-usage, it's more proper choice. For F3 function fog, aiming shall be " cutoff line must be 5.25" below height A@25' wall"






Within choices listed, only 4 banger NCS and HXB passed as SAE F fog function ( HXB was at the borderline quality)
SS3 Max, Pro didn't pass as SAE fog
SS3 Sport likely not pass, but better than Max or Pro ( it may pass, but very questionable, not confident in my observation)

Pro is out of question as fog lamp. Never try to use on the road Unless it is mounted on universal U bracket and aim down as much as 6.5 degree, no way to prevent glare.




At proper SAE aimed observation, NSC likely shows higher illuminance volume of immediate road edge detection zone. But SS3 Sport will have further width reach zone. ( when you look side, will see more reach)

Below is HXB vs Max road edge illuminance impression ( Both are aimed per SAE F function)
Red box indicate driver's road edge view zone.

NCS vs Sport will have similar illuminance balance.



Summery

If being compliant on-road usage is main concern, I can only suggest NCS within your listed choices. HXB was OK, but border line quality and overly bright, so I don't confidently suggest.

from here, forget about strict compliant talk, then

SS3 Sports(not validated, but compliant near equivalent performance expected, well balanced)
SS3 Max (Not compliant, but near equivalent performance and very wide)
4B HXB ( compliant but border line, too bright as fog) More off-road wide beam suitable, technically speaking, brightest F function SAE fog so far, but not ideal due to too bright and too peaky as fog lamp. ( It is OK to use on road, not recommended in my opinion)
forget about Pro Never shall use used on-road application. Glare is not preventable ( unless Universal U-bracket to aim 6.5 degree or more downward, at that aim, you won't see anything, pointing too low)

 

Did the SS3 Max actually not meet compliance? Who officially validates SAE/DOT compliance? They are advertised as such, but is it only in Morimoto's testing that they claim to not meet the standard?

 

No it did not as far as specimen we sent. sent sample were SS3 Pro, Max and Max backlight also checked Baja and Rigid D. Rigid D passed the test. BD failed in out of question level. there are all tested report posted few pages back I think.
Test was requested at CalCoast (one of the most established independent lab, clients includes many of NHTSA requests, basically as official as it gets )

What it did not pass was gradient criteria. In familiar term, cutoff. ( but cutoff word itself maybe different comprehension for most of user here, please check image I posted one post earlier, cutoff is where highest contrast between illuminated edge and non-illuminated edge. Not necessary brighter beam upper edge)

SAE F function first must have well defined cutoff line, based on cutoff line, lamp to be aimed at 0.75D. But if there is no defined enough cutoff line, evaluation label as fail.
2 criteria in SAE J583 F function required.

1. Cutoff criteria
2. Photometric table evaluation

2. is done based on observed cutoff line, so if system can't detect well defined cutoff ( maximum gradient peak number), then can't test photometric table.
CalCoast could not observe defined enough cutoff, so they aim lamp as low as it needed to see if lamp can pass J583 F table photometric table itself or not.
So SS3 Max, max backlight photometry is tested outside of standard regulation defined aim. But, at that aim, at least won't cause harmful glare.

I learned many company claim compliance without validation. SAE compliance only means, lamp can be aimed per regulation defined method, and measurement is OK, won't cause harmful glare with proper aim. It's minimum quality requirement basically.
It was good learn, just because it is claimed, it has no assurance of compliance without third party independent lab observation to back it up.



About SS3 Max aiming
It can't aimed by cutoff, but as long as you aimed 4.5D down like image I posted above, it WILL satisfy all test point of J583 F photometric table, without causing glare. Just this isn't J583 F defined aim definition.
Make sure bracket allows to aim as low as 4.5D adjust. Then, it is J583 F equivalent performance.

 

I have SS3 Sports in Alberta Canada. I ran them in -40C with snow and in -10C with wet snow and everything melted right off.
I find the worst thing that happens to them is the road grime/salt caking them. You really need to clean the ridges of the lens with the window squeegee at the gas station.

 

Not all snow is the same, dry snow in cold climates tends to not stick. The Sports are not hot enough to melt snow in those temps, the snow just doesn’t accumulate. It is near 0C (32F) where the snow is very wet and sticky and will quickly pack over the lights without adequate heat to melt the accumulation.

 

Well I will let you know when I get that exact scenario.
So far haven't had any accumulation.

 

So what’s the solution? What’s the answer? What fog should we run in New England for best results

 

From crashes most excellent testing, SS3 max yellow.

 

That's been my experience here in Vancouver.

 

Wet snow, 15 minute drive to work, selective yellow SS3 Pro

 

2 days a year LOL

 

At first I thought you meant the fogs, then I saw the lamps on the bumper. Pretty neat to see them clear while the other ones are socked in!