Starter Problem on a '99- Could it be the flywheel?

Hey folks,
I had a new starter put in my '99 2.7L SR5 in Sept. 2018, with a new flywheel and clutch too.
Once, in Oct 2019, it wouldn't start- I'd just hear a loud screeching sound. But it only happened once, and then it worked fine. This happened again in Dec., and then in Feb of 2020- that time it took 45 minutes (testing, waiting) before I got it to run. I took it to the same mechanic, left it overnight, they said they tested it, found no problem, just bring it back if it happens again. Come April, it did, multiple times over a couple of days. I left it with them a week, they said it started fine every time they tried it, so who knows? OK, 2 weeks later, it happens again. This time, I can't get it running for 2-3 hrs, real bad, the screeching sound is more like drill this time.
I leave with them 4 days, don't hear back, so go to the shop to find out what's up. They say they've started it 500 times no problem. I ask what the options are here, can we replace the starter? It's still under warranty, so yeah, but you'll have to pay for labor, they tell me. That's fine, ok, I say. I get it back with a heavier duty starter (a 2w, not a 1.4)- the very next day, it does it again, won't start, screeching sound again. I try again and it starts, but the problem is clearly still there. So, I want to take it back, but am wondering what else it could be.

They kept telling me they can't figure it out unless they hear the sound themselves, but can't you check the current on the solenoid? At one point, they said it might be because the rubber floor mat is preventing me from compressing the clutch all the way down (that bugged me, cause I know full well I was compressing the clutch, but I took it out entirely just in case and it still happened). Surely you don't need to take the whole starter apart to find the problem. And if it's the flywheel, wouldn't an inspection have revealed a problem? I'm not the most mechanically savvy, but I get the feeling I'm not being told it straight here. And I say that as a repeat customer of theirs (and this place has a solid reputation). I suspect they didn't really check anything besides trying to start it (and that maybe they didn't want to replace anything because it's still under warranty.

I want to take it back, but I just want to have a clearer idea what could be causing the problem. And I have video of the truck not starting this time, so they can hear the sound for themselves.
Again, I don't want to jump to conclusions- this place has done good work in the past, and has a good reputation, but I don't think they're being honest with me here. I don't think they properly checked it out to begin with. I feel like I'm getting the run around. Is there anything else it could be- like the Bandix Gear? Any advice or links to more research would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

Is the engine still turning when it makes the screeching? It sounds like it's not. Could it be the clutch is not fully disengaging for some reason air in the system or something)? Isn't there a clutch override switch on trucks with manual transmission? My idea would be to use the clutch override switch then only press the clutch in a little to see if you can reproduce the sound. Do that with the shifter out of gear or in whatever gear you usually have it when starting. See if the sound is indeed related to the clutch.

 

When I turn the key, the lights and radio come on. And when the truck won't start, like yesterday, all I hear is the screeching sound, as in I turn the key with the clutch fully compressed, and it'll just screech away, but won't start. So I don't know (or can't tell?) if the engine is turning- all I hear is the screeching. There is a clutch start cancel- I just tested it (full disclosure: I had no idea what that button did prior to your comment. Again, embarrassed to admit it, but I'm not the most mechanically savvy Tacoma owner. I can change my own oil and replace spark plugs and small things like that, and I keep up to date on things, but I haven't a detailed, complex knowledge of vehicles). I followed your counsel- it turns on great, no problem. I haven't driven it anywhere today, but have turned it on 6 times now just testing it- all fine. If the screeching happens again, I may try using this as a way to get it started, but perhaps the problem lies with the ignition system? I just don't understand why they didn't test these tings out- they just said they turned it on 500 times without any problems, and seem to have left it at that.

I'm just frustrated a bit because I've left it with them multiple times to diagnose the problem precisely because I haven't the knowledge to do so myself, never mind fix it, and they don't seem to have done that, which'd be easier to believe if they didn't have a solid track record...

 

Why don't you post a copy here of the video that you made??

 

Do you normally keep the shifter in gear when you depress the clutch to start? Putting it in neutral then using the clutch override switch should allow the engine to spin freely without trying to turn the transmission which seems like it should take any source of major friction out of the equation.

 

No, I keep it in neutral when I start it, always.

 

that's what it sounds like. The last time I brought it in, the sound was a little bit smoother, and in the past it was a little rougher...

 

It sounds like a problem with the starter or it meshing with the flywheel. I'm not sure what would cause that mechanically. And I know it happened with both starters.

 

Have you checked the bell housing bolts? It sounds like to me your trans might be shifted out of alignment a bit in relation to the engine and the starter gear isn't meshing like it should with the fly wheel. There are alignment dowels on the engine that guarantee a proper mating of the engine and trans. If one or more of those alignment dowels came out and they didn't notice upon reassembly, that could throw off the alignment because there is a bit of play in the bell housing bolt holes. The dowels are very important for a properly aligned engine and transmission.

 

I don't have the equipment to lift it up. This just seems like an issue they should've seen when I first brought it in, before replacing the starter, and if not then, then after. I'm just confused about what they were doing with it the whole time. The whole point of bringing it to them was to get a diagnosis, and their response is "we didn't hear anything, it started fine for us, so....". Fine the first time,
but I left it in with them thrice. So, I'm not sure if I should take it back, or seek out a new mechanic at this stage... very frustrating,
and not how they normally operate either.

 

I feel your frustration... yes there is a problem. I would find out if they put a remanufactured starter in or a new one... regardless new or reman, there is a problem... You will not be happy unless the problem is fixed. The only thing I can sugest at this time is to take it back to the shop that did the work and ask if the stater is new or remanufatred, is a reman you will have to pay the difference in price between the rem and the new. As far as paying for the labor twice... this all depends on who they get their parts from. If the shop has the reputation that you say they do their parts house will eat the labor for their defective product. In the rare situations where the part I get from my local O' Reillys is truly defective and I ask, they will, and have, made monetary considerations for me. Do I do thousands of dollars a week work through them, no, but I do enough and I am not an A-Hole when there is an issue.

 

Maybe when they replaced the starter they said they did but they didn't... sure sounds like the starter solenoid is not always pushing the starter gear into the flywheel though.

 

But aren't Toyota starters designed so that the starter motor won't spin until the gear is pushed completely out? Electricity won't flow to the starter motor until the solenoid pulls the plunger all the way down to the metal contacts, but the gear will be fully extended at that point.

 

Ok, so another commenter recommended I use the clutch start cancel, and I tried it, but I had the clutch in neutral. Just to be clear, you're suggesting I try it in gear, and if it doesn't move that would indicate a flywheel/starter problem. I'll give that a go and see...

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I'm going to bring it back, and will provide an update accordingly...

 

UPDATE!: Well folks, I took it back and.... sure enough, there was a defect in the flywheel. Some of the teeth were cut just a tad off, and it was making it difficult for the starter and bandix gear to interact with it. The flywheel had been replaced the same time the starter was, about two years prior. The mechanic took full responsibility- I was right, they should've checked this before, and replaced the flywheel at no charge in either labor or parts. I think that's what was bugging me about all this- I knew something wasn't up, and they hadn't checked it as thoroughly as they had in the past, and was concerned I'd have to go elsewhere and pay full price to get it fixed, and/or have a big argument on my hands. Being a long- time customer, well, that was the point of staying at one place, right? To avoid that kinda nonsense. But, the worst case scenario didn't turn out- they took responsibility and did what needed doing, so I'm happy how it turned out. Thanks again to all respondents, I felt a lot more knowledgeable interacting with them as a result of your counsel, much appreciated. God Bless and stay safe out there.

 

Congrats
Thanks for the update

 

Thats a good mechanic.