So Toyota is wussing out on the Engine, dang it. 270HP but add gearing

There's a lot of people upset about the HP numbers that MAYBE 270... the title of the thread for instance... my point was its more about performance, not numbers and the 2nd gen truck performed pretty damn well again the heaver competition. With the 3rd gen being lighter, more HP than before and i'm sure at least match or better torque than before, I don't think we have to worry about the engine performance.

 

Not sure it will match torque #'s. Transmission and weight might help. However Toyota bragged up there being more HP, MPG, and towing but never mentioned torque.

 

That's why I said, at least match torque... At any rate, doesn't matter... It's about real world performance

 

Tundra moves 1 V6 for every 10 Tacoma V6 trucks. To get enough capacity for Tacoma line to get the dual VVTi, they'd have to revamp TMMAL's 1GR line. Pulling a hundred units a month from the Japan dual VVTi line for the Tundra is way cheaper than revamping the whole TMMAL engine line that builds over 10k a month (assuming all 1GRs for Tacoma come from Alabama... I think they do.)

Tundra V6 was killed off because no one bought it. Its case wasn't helped by the 4Runner basically jumping 50% with the 2014 refresh and needing more dual VVTi 1GRs.

 

This is confusing. So the USA plant couldn't handle 10% more engines for the Tundra? I find that hard to believe but it's possible.

I get your second point, that retooling the plant in the USA to produce the 1GR Dual VVT would of had a cost attached, but it wouldn't be a crazy cost. Building engine within the same family is usually pretty easy to retool for. It's not like the Dual VVT has different boring or casing from what I understand. Most of the differences were from bolt on parts that are super easy to retool for.

There probably wasn't much motivation to put a new engine in the Tacoma when the current setup was selling like hotcakes. Now with the Colorado threatening sales Toyota is upping there game with the 3.5 L. As much as a few people like to cry about the new Tacoma the new truck will be an evolutionary step from the old truck. If you believe Toyota they've fixed the vibration issues, made modifications to lighten and strengthen the frame, and added all of the goodies 90% of Tacoma buyers were whining were missing. At the same time they are going to get better mpg and likely slightly more power (what RPM ) so it's a win overall. Competition breeds better trucks. Look at the F150 now and 10 years ago, that truck has come a long way far faster than the Tacoma because Ford has to evolve quickly to keep leading the market. Toyota is recognizing the need to push this Tacoma past the Colorado to keep there leadership position 100% safe in the midsize market. Too bad Toyota doesn't actually want to build a competitive full size, but that's another story.

Either way it doesn't matter. Any manufacturer that hopes to have massive V6 naturally aspirated full sized sales is delusional. The Tundra is slowly killing itself off with antique engines. Hopefully Toyota does a real update soon or that truck will become the next Titan selling 20,000 units per year soon. Eventually even Toyota direhards will fall away when you don't update your powertrain for decades if Toyota tries to keep the current Tundra for another 7-8 years...

 

A lot of that difference too was the twin scroll turbo. Quite frankly there are almost too many differences between the 2015 wrx and sti to attribute it to one particular thing being changed.

 

I don't know the exact numbers at each plant. They certainly consider that when they make these decisions.

You also greatly underestimate the cost of the upgrade. Local suppliers have to be tooled up for the new parts, any automation in the line has to be retooled. All the testing has to be retooled. The after-sale support (setting the dealers up with new part numbers, logistics to get them there, etc, etc).

The fact of the matter is that the work was already basically done for the Tundra mid-cycle when the economy crashed. In a shaky economy, Tacoma was late enough on the schedule that they could cancel the update.

 

The 4Runner and the tundra shared the same dual vvt motor. So the parts numbers were already in existence. I think it was just Toyota being cheap because of lack of competition.we can thank GM for the upcoming improvements.

 

I don't think any of us know that actual costs of changing over from 1GR-FE single VVT to dual VVT production. I understand what you are saying but we aren't talking about retooling for a completely different motor. A lot of things would of carried over for the dual VVT though I absolutely admit that, no matter what the cost, Toyota may have said no due to the economic downturn.

At the end of the day what drove the change for the new Tacoma was the reintroduction of the Colorado. If the 3.5 L sucks as hard as some on here would like you to believe, even though they literally know nothing about how the engine will perform in the new Tacoma, it won't stick around long because Toyota won't let the Tacoma die. Tacoma is one of there market leading products and they will always make modifications if the market demands it.

Like I said, either way it doesn't matter because I don't think the 1GF-RE would of stuck around for the 2016 Tacoma in either case. There are too many factors that are pulling for a small more efficient 3.5 L engine in the new Tacoma.

 

Dont forget the FJ got the Dual VVTi 1gr in 2010 model year too.

 

Love them torques.

 

Seems to be a lot of clueless people in here who have no idea on how current engine designs work or how to read a power curve. Yes I am talking to those who are looking at peak numbers (which aren't even released yet) and calling it a car engine. But gosh, it doesn't hae more torque than hp it must be a high revving honda car motor with vtec yo!

Hey, how does the 4k peak torque on the current 4.0 make it a truck engine yet on a Colorado it is a car engine? is it solely because it has more hp than tq?

For those so knowledgeable on distinguishing between a car and truck motor, how is it GM is considering using the 2.8 duramax in a Cadillac? That is a diesel truck motor in a luxury car! Or maybe you can tell me is the Corvette a truck motor or is the 6.2 truck motor in the GM full size trucks and suv's a car motor?

See what I am getting at? Lot's of laughable misconception in here. I am really hoping to see 250 tq out of the new 3.5 just to see the sh*t hit the fan with whiners even though I bet it will have a very flat torque curve and probably make 85% of its torque at 1500 rpm or something.

Lets not even get started on how improved gearing will make a big change, how numbers affect towing performance such as on the ike gauntlet and how you want HP and TQ in a motor in equal parts; that is a whole additional can of worms and probably over the heads of some of the member here.

Tyler

 

Some of the best truck I ever owned were straight sixes, the /6 225-1 motor in the 62 Town Wagon, the 292 offset mount in the 75 Chevy one ton dually, my 85 FJ60 Land Cruiser. With modern engine design, torque monsters are now reserved to diesels...

 

I drove one. We ended up with a 2014 V6 crew cab 4x4 Silverado on a ski trip in March 2014 in Colorado because they didn't have the SUV we reserved! Anyway it really wasn't that bad. It wouldn't win any drag races but got 4 of us and a significant amount of gear up to Breckenridge and Vail no problem. There's some high altitude climbs on that route. Would I buy that configuration? NO but it was decent and got decent MPG too.

 

I brought up the VR-4 to illustrate the performance gains of higher compression via turbocharging, just like I brought up Porsche engine to illustrate the performance gains of higher compression in NA V6s. Simply put, small displacement engines are capable of producing power and torque, whether that be closer to redline or lower end. The battle of engineers is figuring out how to make that power and torque efficiently, which in this case Toyota opted for a smaller displacement engine for the sake of efficiency.

I'll agree, I'm unsure where this new engine will find torque, but I trust Toyota is going to at least improve upon the 270 ft lbs number that the 4.0L makes. All that being side, really can't knock a brand-new engine before we get our hands on it and try it out. It'll be exciting if they can improve (even slightly) the performance numbers of the 1GR, all while maximizing fuel efficiency.

Faster? Technically no. VTec, just like any other form of variable valve timing, retards the valves (whether by lift or duration, I can't remember) to save on fuel during mild throttle-mild load circumstances; while re-timing the valves to maximize cylinder potential under heavy load/throttle input.

 

On the other hand I sure would like to own a Gen3 Tacoma because of class-leading specs. The most important being torque. I don't care much about peak HP if it's a result from winding the engine up over 6000rpm. I want a big torque number.

Maybe too much to ask but that's my wish.

 

But seriously, I'm sure you meant you'd like a truck with class leading torque for some reason or another. Who cares what stats a truck has on paper. If it does the job better than it's a better truck.

 

I want to see the return of the straight 6 torque monster gas engines in combination with new engine technology. Not sure why v6 configuration is more popular than i6

 

Have you seen the engine bay of a 2nd generation Tacoma. There is barely enough room for a small V8, let alone the straight 6.

Straight 6 doesn't offer any advantages, per displacement, over a V8 in the same space. Hence why they died out. Either engine wouldn't be fuel efficient enough for Toyota's CAFE compliance plan anyways.