Siless 3 in 1 Hybrid Sound Deadening?

Any thoughts on this? Seems new. There not too much out there about it.

 

Go ahead , you know you want to.

 

Been doing that all week with this truck lol. At least the lights and speakers had something more than Amazon reviews.

 

You should have never found this place, my wallet has been full of nothing but lint.

 

Looks like they’re trying to take on SoundSkins

 

Does it have enough in each of the plies to be effective or is this more of a gimmick? Obviously it would be convenient as hell to have one peel and stick to rule them all.

 

Go to Tacoma World they said. It's full of knowledge they said. They mentioned nothing of the cost lol

 

Only thing I have ever used is the thin version of dynamat. Can you not get a small sample piece to see what it's like?

 

Cheapest I've seen is $75 for 25sqft on Amazon. I wouldn't even know what I was looking at quality wise if I got it to be honest. I did a hack job on my old Kia about 10 years ago with some noico and EPDM seam tape from work

 

I’m in the middle of an install with the Siless 2in1, 3in1 took a bit longer to ship so I went for the 2in1. My first time using any of these Siless products. I’m finished with the back doors and I’m pretty impressed so far. Product is thick, seems to dampen/insulate well from what I can tell. I applied a few panels of the Siless product onto the inner door sheet metal and then covered as much as I could on the outer panel that the actual door panel clips into. Have to be careful to not get product to close to clip areas or door panels will not clip back in, it’s that thick.
Front doors and rear wall are next!

 

That's encouraging! So I didn't know they had a two in one. Looks like the same overall width, but you have 150 mil foam. Thanks for the reply. I may pull the trigger on this after all.

 

Fwiw The 36sqft pack should be plenty to finish front doors and rear wall. My rear doors now close with a thud instead of an audible “ting”.

 

i guess the real question i have is what every layer actually does once it leaves the marketing department.

the first layer is what everyone wants/needs, to mass-load the panel and change the Fs of the panel.
i question the thermal characteristics of the middle foam layer given the limited thickness. it seems more of a gimmick. it's too thin to maintain any R-value for insulation properties, and being between 2 butyl surfaces likely limits it's acoustical properties to appropriately phase-change the sound waves.

the b-mastic layer, i'm not finding any technical documentation on, indicating this is really just an altered/colored butyl formulation, it means to me this stuff is just a typical 100-mil sound dampening with a fancy middle foam layer...

any bets that comparing this head to head with a 100mil sheet of butyl would yield the same results?

 

That's kinda what I was worried about. The overall thickness seems a pretty lite compared to what others are apparently installing with separate layers. Any thoughts on using the 2 in 1 that Willgshave mentioned? Same thickness in butyl but 150mil in foam. It would still need a separate MLV layer but 2 layers in one is still a win if it actually works.

 

i had a big rant here on the car audio industry overall lacking technical specifications, but it was getting too long...

i guess the question that needs to be asked is "what is being solved with this product?" do you really need more than 50mil of butyl? do you really need 2 layers of butyl, and the foam layer? do you need the foam layer? what makes siless' product definitively better than any other option?

ok, rant's gonna happen anyways:
siless' product page says "Siless is simply the best on the market!!!" but doesn't quantify that in any respect, it's just a statement-- they don't state if we're getting more butyl than other brands, if they have better adhesion characteristics, or if the butyl is of a higher quality. nothing, just a raw statement that "WE DA BES".
NVX says "Using only first-rate materials, our deadening sheets are thicker than the competition and DIY ready"
Second Skin audio has an entire page that highlights they're an american-made product, with quality material, and finishes by highlighting their excellent customer service.

if we're going to argue about brands, the only one that stands a chance to win in this discussion between these 3 example brands is second skin audio. one could argue about supporting a product made in the USA, or because they have excellent customer service, as those are both quantifiable things that the other 2 brands never speak of. but there's no technical basis that any of the 3 are providing a better-performing product than the other 2 brands, so we're really not discussing sound quality anymore, we're discussing personal preferences and/or brand preferences.


butyl is used in car audio dampening because of it's flexibility and thickness to weight ratio. one could just as effectively pour molten lead onto their door panels to get the same benefits.

closed cell foam does have some acoustic properties, but it's mostly limited to low frequency sound waves, which is also what the butyl most responds to. it's better used as a thermal barrier, just as one uses it for those beer can cozies.


so the complex answer to the question is "what does one hope to achieve?" the foam adds mass and some insulation, as well as slows down some sound waves, and any additional mass will lower the resonance slightly more of any body panels the stuff is attached to. if one's purpose is only to install it for the audio properties of the material, 2 layers of butyl would likely do better. if one desires to add some additional insulation, as well as were already planning on a small 50mil butyl layer for a slightly improved sound system, then the 2-layer product would be a great option.

but imo, everyone here slathers sound dampening on too thick anyways-- butyl dampening fundamentally only works on floppy panels anyways, it's a complete waste to put it around corners...

 

Good point about the lack of actual data. I guess it's telling that apparently the manufacturers haven't conducted any testing themselves. Or at least if they did, it didn't back up their claims. It sounds like the 3 in 1 is a bust and the 2 in 1 depends. I suppose I'll torture myself some more tracking down the illusive details. Or trying to anyway.

 

There’s only so much you can do in a car before it gets insane and the laws of diminishing returns certainly applies.

If you want to acoustically insulate two spaces there are a few ways this is typically handled in the venue or studio world. Dolby Labs built a screening room in San Francisco a couple decades ago and for “because” reasons they threw budget to the wind to see how quiet they could make it. Most of the cost and the biggest benefit was mechanically separating the room from the rest of the building and suspending it inside using rubber, much like building for an earthquake coincidently. I think they said that room alone, essentially a medium/small movie theater auditorium with a stage and recording booth, cost somewhere north of $2M to build.

In my industry recommended practice is to cut slabs and separate rooms not with one wall but two that have an air gap between them, three layers of drywall and corrugated shaped curtains all the way around and carpeted everything else. All this just to meet the NC-30 requirements for THX certification.

None of this shit you can do to your vehicle, there’s no cutting slabs or isolating yourself from the shell of the vehicle with rubber, it’s all bolted and welded solidly together because primarily, it has to be a motor vehicle. You’ll never be able to get to the Dolby Labs screening room tier, let alone THX certified (much easier) it doesn’t matter how hard you try or how much you spend.

So, in my humble opinion, 75% coverage on the inside of the outer door skin, felt washers and weatherstripping to prevent/address panel rattles, and spend the rest of your money on more power and speakers with tighter tolerances, better mounting brackets, OFC not CCA, more processing… etcetera.

Now, if money and time are of no concern to you, and you give no fucks about your payload getting cut in half and shitty gas mileage due to all the weight you are adding by going full retard on MLV, closed cell and butyl insano-layering, by all means sir, Tin Cup that shit.

 

So I did some digging in a mobile auto forum that led me to a Facebook page of a guy who is actually testing a bunch of different sound deadeners. I posted a few below. The red is bare metal. The ReSonix, according to what they are saying on the page, is the G.O.A.T. as far as the testing shows. So I guess I'll be getting lost down that rabbit hole for a while.

 

Resonix iirc is the answer to the discontinuation of the diyma sound deadener showdown Cld tiles. Basically same thing. Very pricey but you don’t need a whole lot of coverage.

 

my unprofessional understanding is that you don't need (nor want, really, given the additional weight, expense and time) 100% coverage with a butyl-type sound damping material. i have an equally unprofessional understanding that foam doesn't provide either sound damping or sound "insulation," but rather prevents rattling, so i'm not sure just how effective a thin layer cemented in the middle like that would be.