Rattling noise goes away with clutch is pushed... problem?

Hey guys,

My truck makes a rattling noise that is more obvious when in the cab with the doors open in neutral, and it goes away when I push my clutch is. Which makes me think it's the clutch. But is it a normal thing that these trucks do, or am I in for a clutch job?

 

It might be just the throw out bearing getting noisy. You may need to pull the driveshaft and tranny to get a good inspection. While you are in there it's probably a good idea to do the clutch and pressure plate as well ......

 

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/te...on-information-your-6-speed-transmission.html


When you push the clutch to the floor , all the gearing within the transmission stops turning . You are hearing the gear train spinning from your description
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Yep that is known as neutral gear rattle perfectly normal.

 

I disagree that the rattle it normal, although it is impossible to diagnose your problem without hearing it. Here is what just happened to me. As a background I am the third owner of a 2011 double cab six speed trd off road.
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Cliffs notes for those who don't want to read my saga below; bearing rattle, eventually was found to be covered by the tsb even though my vin was out of range. Rattle was the clutch release bearing, took two dealerships and a lot of heated conversations to get it warrantied at 47K miles.
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Non Cliff note version;

There was no abnormal noise when I bought the truck about a year ago. Maybe a month ago I started to get the rattle which can only be described as bearing rattle. When the clutch is in, the sound goes away, when it's out you can hear it run. If you 'ride' the clutch just a little bit you can get it to whine at a different pitch. The sound would be louder after the car had been driven for a while, say for 20 minutes on a freeway, then everything would be hot and it would get loud. You can hear it whenever you are driving the truck not just at idle. If this is what you are experiencing then here was my result.

So I started by researching online and I found this TSB.

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/foru...ical-service-bulletins-tsbs-fj-cruiser-8.html

Click the link in that thread and you will get a download of the pdf tsb. Notably the drive train warranty to 60k applied, so rather than take care of it myself I decided to get Toyota to do it.

I then took my truck to a local dealership and they test drove it and verified the sound. I told them about the TSB. The service manager immediately started to tell me that it wouldn't be covered by warranty, and that fixing a tsb was not warranty work. I kept my mouth shut to just get them started on the truck. The mechanic who went on the test drive with me said he didn't think it was the clutch release bearing as he had heard it before (total bs) and that he thought it was a bearing in the transmission. I said great, warranty, take care of it. They took the truck.

A full day later they called and said that the sound was coming from my rear differential and that because of the lift I have, they wouldn't warranty it. I told them they were not correct on the sound, but they said they were positive so I said fine. They wanted 2K to replace the rear third. I told them to give me the truck. They charged my $185 including a one day car rental and gave me my truck back.

I went home, pulled my third and had it rebuilt by a reputable shop who told me that they thought the pinion bearing had some wear and that the preload from the factory on the pinion was high, but other than that, all looked good. They charged my 400 and replaced the bearings for me.

Put it back and in, and of course the bearing noise was still there. Gave the "experts" at the dealership another chance. They kept the truck for three days, at one point agreeing it was the clutch release bearing then saying my truck doesn't apply because the vin is out of the TSB. I told them I don't care about the vins, if the tsb applies, they should fix it. I called toyota regional and they got involved. All of sudden the shop was willing to remove the transmission to inspect, but required me to agree to pay to tear it down. I had no faith in them, so I requested my truck back, refused to pay them anymore money and took my truck to a second dealership recommended by toyota regional.

Second dealership immediately agreed with me and said blaming the rear diff or the lift was ridiculous. They also said that they didn't care about the vin and believed the tsb applied. They did ask me to agree that if a wear item (the clutch) was the problem, I would be on the hook. Because they were so much better at diagnosing, I agreed to it. They tore apart the tranny, found the clutch release bearing to be shot, it had worn out the shit fork, and had been rubbing on the clutch cover. They then called toyota and got the okay to replace the clutch fork, cylinder and bearing as well as the clutch cover. I paid them parts for a clutch disk and the cost to turn the flywheel. Three days later I had my truck back, the throw on the clutch pedal is smoother than ever and the rattle is gone. I'm currently attempting to recoup the 185+ 400 for the miss-diagnosis and making me rebuild a part that needed no work.


OP I noticed you have an 05, so although the tsb may apply if your noise is the same as mine was, however, you are out of warranty. If it were me, I would buy the URD kit.

http://urdusa.com/Clutch-and-Flywhe...IT,-2005+-Tacoma-V6-6-Speed/product_info.html

 

I had what sounds to be the same sound from mine. Took it to the dealer and they replaced the throw out bearing, slave cylinder and a few other parts that the TSB covers. The noise stopped. I was over the 5 year mark so had to come out of pocket but since there is a TSB out for it they cut labor in half.

 

Thanks for the write up myeyesore, I'll look into it, but seeing as we're getting into september already and the weather here is already starting to get cold. I likely won't touch it till the spring. (I also don't have the luxury of spare time/free weekends till sometime in october/november) I don't suspent it will cause to many issues, the clutch and everything still feels fine, it just makes a little bit of a rattle. If I get a chance this evening I'll record a little bit of the noise and post it so you can here what the noise it's making, then you'll have a better idea.

 

Probably the TO bearing. If you are still riding on the factory clutch after 9 yrs, it's due time for replacement.

 

ALL manual transmissions rattle in neutral some worst than others this is why most diesels have duel mass flywheels. Usually the Taco bearings squeak at idle if you depress the clutch slightly it will go away. Mine has rattled from new for the last 50,000 miles in neutral. I can't hear it from here and neither can any one else if it bothers you take it to some one that does transmissions they will be able to tell the difference.

 

It's been years since I've owned a manual - but I still drive one occasionally. The way I could tell if the throw out bearing was going bad was exactly as you stated. " you depress the clutch slightly it will go away. " The only time I heard a loud gear noise in neutral is when there is a problem.

JMHO

 

It's not loud it's a slight whine but there is a noise. My diesel VW had a duel mass fly wheel that went south I replaced it with a solid fly wheel now I'm here to tell you that was one noisy transmission in neutral because of the firing cycle of a diesel there are a lot of moving parts inside with the clutch out in neutral.

 

Should be an easy diagnosis to determine wether the clutch release bearing is the problem or the gearing is the issue .This is a basic diaphram style clutch concern that can be rectified quickly .
Have you tried adjusting your free play as outlined in the link I provided for you .
I doubt it would take more than 1/2 an hour of your time to make the adjustment.
Everything is accomplished under your dash . Release bearings dont whine . They may rattle if all the bearings are pitted from lack of adjustment ,but in most cases they chirp like a bird or squeal.
By making the adjustment , you are going to remove all the preload from the release bearing . If you have a release bearing issue , the noise will go away after the adjustment is made . If the noise remains , you have gear rattle as mentioned above.
Any transmission shop can make this adjustment within 10 minutes. A good transmission shop can diagnose your problem by simply test driving the truck during a free road test

 

Best description I can give was that it sounded like bearings rattling in the race. For what it's worth the first techs heard it and said they thought the clutch release would make more of a chirping sound which mine was not. I've dealt with a lot of different bearing issues with all my different trucks over the years so I was pretty confident that the sound was from the clutch area and just sounded like a very unhappy bearing. I was going to tear apart my transmission myself until I read about the recall. For my noise, regardless of what you call it, whine, whir or anything else, it just sounded like a bearing that was going south.

At idle I really didn't hear it as much, it was when I was moving that it was most noticeable, all speeds. Like I said above if I rode the clutch the pitch would get higher and when the clutch was in the noise was completely gone. It seemed to be loudest under load.

Good luck. Hope this helps.

 

the T O 08w 70.k

 

Great point mentioned above by myeyesore !!! I am giving him points for it !!!
Noises are difficult to diagnose over the dreaded keyboard and his contribution with some of the best information I have seen in a long time including an in depth explanation to assist the OP,s problem is excellent .
There are all kinds of guys who reply with one word answers and others who had a similar sound so it must be the same problem .
Great post and I hope for the OP,s sake , its just a clutch job with a new release bearing .

 

Hey guys, thanks for the tips, I'll look into it when I get a chance this week. I had to go to wedding this weekend and didn't have a chance to take a video to show the sound. It does go away once the truck is in gear/moving though. It only rattles when the truck is cold and sitting still in neutral. At least from what I could tell. When I got to my girlfriends parents place (her brother was getting married), which is about an hour drive me one way, and I parked the truck and was listening to it in neutral it didn't seem to make the same noise, or any noise out of the ordinary.

 

Sounds like you might have a different issue going on. Probably a great idea to follow the instructions in the above link about adjusting the clutch, maybe that's where your problem lies. Easy fix.

Thanks gearcruncher, new to this board, but not new to forums or building trucks. I always appreciate people being thorough when I have a question, so I try to help the best I can.

 

Same experience with the noise and lack of noise after depressing clutch pedal. However, I had to let the dealership know that I'd researched the issue online and that it seemed to be a chronic problem with these vehicles. Without mentioning this, I'm not convinced the dealership would have looked into any further. Before the dealer researched the TSB, they said the warranty department would not cover the throw out bearing because it's looked at as wear and tear after about 10k (plus or minus) miles. After finding the TSB, the warranty department covered it. I was glad to hear that the $1300 estimate (entire clutch kit replacement including clutch plate resurface) got reduced to a $50 deductible!! Great to know they may reduce labor costs when a TSB is involved; I wouldn't have thought to ask about it.