Noticed high oil consumption at 250k, considering engine replacement costs

Good afternoon all,

I have a 2011 Tacoma 2.7 4 cylinder, with 270k on it.

I noticed that it started burning a lot of oil around the 250k mark, and threw a cat code (P0420).

Took it in to the shop and they said that all 4 cylinders have a psi of 85-90 psi at operating temperatures. Also a small amount of oil smoke, on cold startup only. Seems to be worn piston rings.

Good news is the truck runs great, which is surprising. I've towed about 1k lbs without issue. Trying to get some more miles out of it, I went ahead and put some Lucas oil stabilizer in there. That seems to have mostly stopped the oil consumption.

Condition of rest of truck is great, except for the cat, which is performing at low efficiency. I passed annual emissions inspection a couple months ago, but will need a new cat soon per mechanic. No rust on the frame. Transmission is fine and has never had issues.

To drop a replacement engine in, I was quoted about 9k, from two different shops. Asked about a Jasper engine and they said it wouldn't be much cheaper. 22 hours of labor. No way I would pay that for an engine.

I have basic knowledge of cars, but don't really feel confident enough to pick out a junkyard engine on my own. Or do the labor myself either.

I wondering what you all would do in my situation. In todays economy/market, is 9k really the norm for an engine these days, or am I getting ripped off? Is it true that Jasper engines also that expensive these days? Or is it likely that I would probably find a better deal somewhere else....? I live in the Southeast US if that makes a difference.

I am hoping to just keep driving it for as long as I can. Would adding Risolene high mileage compression repair be worth a shot? I know most additives aren't worth it but I'm on my last leg anyways. Anyone had success with that?

Any other advice? What would you do in this situation. Thanks!

 

compression repair in a can is nothing more than snake oil, a scam. Id personally swap the engine but I have the skill to do so. You may want to consider trading it in for something newer / lower miles. But thats what I would do if I couldnt swap the engine and needed reliable transportation.

 

If $ is tight and you have skills , just hone and install new rings. Could even be done with out pulling the engine out. Not a job for someone without skills,but not insanely difficult. Probably need a few more tools, but that and parts should be under $750, if you reuse the bearings. Cats will keep failing if it is burning a lot of oil.

heads come off oil pan comes off then remove connecting rod caps and pull pistons out the top. Will need to make seals to keep debris away from crank area. A simple brush hone on your drill is fine for keeping an old engine running. This will fully resolve the low compression and oil burning.

fyi oil smoke only on start up is usually valves seals, not rings. Though rings could still be bad, just not bad enough to create blue smoke.

 

$9k is not the cost of a slow stock 4 cylinder. I’d probably sell it and/or throw new piston rings in. Whether that’s just rings or pistons with them included.
Maybe through the bottom. Or taking the head off doing it that way. Potentially machining the head. Though if it’s never overheated that may not be needed.

or flush products or ring soak type of stuff in the hope it helps.
BG flush, MMO piston soak, LM flush, filling the crank with diesel to soak and rotating the engine by hand a few times then drain. Take your pick.
The more messed up it is and reduced value, the less apprehension there is with trying a stronger method than a slow gentle one.
slow gentle attempts take time and like has been said, the longer an engine is burning oil the more it damages the cat.

such issues are supposed to be reduced with good oil change practices and better piston ring design from factory that I think Toyota has, which is usually waffle style that is better to avoid clogging with carbon than other worse styles of ring known to carbon up.

valve stem seals are probably bad and can be done at the same time.

if surfaces aren’t machined, cleaning is done with a carbide scraper to avoid particle debris that would be caused by a roloc wheel that also abrades unevenly.

it’s common in vehicles that need pistons that the block and head don’t get messed with to do it. Just cleaned and new gasket, taken off to access the pistons.


Junkyards lie. I bought a used trans. “Good”. Sitting on a shelf.
It was not. First gear was pitted making a whirring noise when it actually drives.
Is that entirely on them? No. It was cheap. They get a car that may not even run, and put the parts on a shelf.
It was probably from the factory as it’s a known issue with TSB for it to replace the part.
That’s a risk with used. You don’t know if an engine has issues, has been neglected and is sludged, etc.
“The devil you know is better than the one you don’t”

for $9k you could probably have a Hellcat drivetrain or any V8 swap.

 

9K is ridiculous. Also, avoid rebuilt motors at all costs. Low mile motors from a reputable seller are much less risky.

 

How much oil is it using? Unless I'm adding a quart every few hundred miles I'm driving it until I am. I had an old 1989 Honda that was using/leaking about a quart every 1000 miles. Drove it that way for 4-5 years before selling it for $700 as is. I reached a point where I just stopped changing the oil. I was adding a quart every 10-15 days anyway.

 

I'm responding as a retail customer, not someone who could attempt to rebuild an engine themselves.

1st, you shouldn't do a lot of towing (or snowplowing), with a 2.7l engine. (See CCN video below.)

You basically have 2 choices: Find a low mileage junkyard replacement engine (with or without warranty, another topic).

OR have the dealership add a short block and rebuild the engine for you. (Good luck finding a private shop that would do this for you, apart from the Car Care Nut channel (Chicago) on YouTube.)

I've been down this road, and chose new short block install at a dealership, together with all new gears, guides, timing chain, head gasket, cylinder head resurface, water pump etc. Total around $11k. (Including new short block around $3k.) This on a rust free 2nd gen Tacoma that I plan to keep long term. 6 months, 5k miles later, engine runs great, no oil burning. Time will tell.

I bought a 2007 Tacoma 4 cyl 2.7l rust free in Florida in 2019, 174k miles, access cab 4x4. It had a tow hitch. At $7, 500, I figured it is ok, even if eventually engine goes.

It started burning alot of oil around 230k. It also developed a VVTI rattle on cold starts, and at one point, I heard a plastic cracking (as if a guide broke). That's what made me move forward on rebuilding or replacing engine. I never had any coolant issues.

Here's some research I recommend:
Car Care Nut channel adds a short block engine to a Tacoma 2.7l engine that had been used for snow plowing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOcA6Dp8ZJQ&t=2648s&pp=ygUXY2FyIGNhcmUgbnV0IHRhY29tYSAyLjc=

He has many other videos on short block installs to fix oil burning Toyotas.

Really interesting thread about new short block vs used engine. Dealership fried an engine on an FJ Cruiser, dealership agreed to replace engine. Customer had to decide between low mileage used engine, or short block. Drum roll. Customer chose the new short block.

https://www.fjcruiserforums.com/threads/2007-engine-blown-by-dealership-help-needed-asap.476689/

I would avoid Jasper or "rebuilt" engines, from my reading.

 

Somewhere around 16 to 17 years ago, I put a Jasper engine in my 1994 SR5 V6 when the original engine went south on me with +/- 311,000 miles on it. It was burning a little oil, smoke on cold start as you mentioned. I drove that for another +/- 102,000 with no issues, traded the 1994 with +/- 413,000 on it for my 2020. I paid around $6000 at the time, so $9000 today sounds like a similar price. I was between a rock and a hard spot, so expediency counted a lot at the time and the Jasper was the quickest but maybe not the best option. Good luck. It sucks to have to deal with it.

 

No doubt that a short block is better than a ring/hone job. However, throwing $11K at a 15 year old truck with 250k on it does not always make a lot of sense, as they are not worth a bunch more than that. It makes sense if you want to get it to 500k, but not so much if you just want to get another 100k out of it. Hone an re-ring was done a LOT in the old days and still a low cost alternative to oil burning and low compression. Heads come off, so new valve seals is incrementally a pretty easy job.

 

Pretty much all of this. Rings aren't that terrible to do. The 4cyl is easier that the 6 to work on so you have that going for you. Finding a shop to do this for you in the truck shouldn't be too hard if your out in the country a bit.

 

Keep and eye out in the rust belt...Might be able to find a crusty rusty taco with a good engine ! Otherwise keep running the Lucas snake oil as it seems to be working for you..

 

It was burning a quart of oil every 750-1k miles before adding lucas.

As far as towing, is it really that bad to tow with a 4 cyl? I have a jetski that weighs 700 lbs, probably 1k with the trailer. tow it 10 mins to the lake and back over the summer. I also have a dirt bike I put in my truck bed (not at the same time I tow the jetski) Now Im thinking I may eventually need to buy a used truck with 6 cylinders. But I always thought 1k was well within load.

Replacing piston rings sounds like a good idea. How many hours of labor would it take a shop do you think? Trying to get an idea for how much that would cost. Otherwise I’m considering just looking at used trucks with a 6 cylinder

 

My old boss used to buy a lot of old high mileage rigs and he always put a quart of automatic Transmission fluid in about a week before he changed oil and ran it pretty easy that week, then drop the oil and filter. He claimed that the ATF would clean all the grit and grime around the inside of the engine letting the internal parts work better, like the rings and seals. The oil always came out black as coal when he dropped it. in fact on a new to him rig he would do this every time he pulled the dip stick and it was black, even if it was just a couple of days. after a few changes the oil would look cleaner and cleaner in between changes, he would say it kept cleaning the internal engine, more and more. Worked for him and ATF is cheaper than lucas oil. He used GM type ATF because the ford type had grit in it. Can't hurt if your talking about new rings or engine... maybe you can get another 50 thousand miles out of it, and who cares if you have to add a quart of oil once and a while.

 

I believe it. Heard of this as one method. ATF is high in cleaning detergents and should still provide some lubrication in that ratio. Whats the worst that happens, some sneaks past the bad rings and burns? Oil (damaging to cats) is already burning.

Probably no fear in trying it on a malfunctioning $400 engine.

any rings I’ve dealt with burning oil were carboned up. To the point you can see it on the old ring in your hand picking at it with a screwdriver. But at that point the head was taken off to put new pistons that come with rings. Pistons generally have a PTFE layer on the skirts that wears off over time, that new ones replace.
But in that case it was also due to a poor initial design ring on another vehicle that is not waffle style, and switches over to waffle style that’s supposed to be more resistant to this, provided good OCI practice. Which in the real world isn’t a garuntee buying used.

 

One positive in all this for 2.7L engine owners, is the engine was made for a long time, 2005 to 2023 for Tacomas. If one were patient, you could eventually find a low mileage one. In the rust belt, the rest of the truck goes before the engine, as many don't get them undercoated.

 

I had an issue similar to this using oil. I had to add at least 2 quarts over my 5000 mile oil change interval. It idled VERY rough, and a lot of soot on the body around the tail pipe. The computer eventually threw a PO420 (cat efficiency).

I did complression check
Compression (Dry) 175-135-165-70 (average 136)
Compression (Wet) 200-160-180-125 (average 166)
Based on that, I knew its not the valves. But it's ONLY on cyl #4 (rear)

I also put a tiny cheapo video camera in the spark plug hole to try & look at the cyl walls. Because tghe spark plug tube is so long, I could not get it to turn and see the walls.
I was pretty sure it's just oil gumming up the rings.

I followed this guy's test on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9tNXr0Ynm8&t=1s

Basically, it's just letting carb cleaner sit overnight in the combustion chamber to dissolve the scum on the rings. You pull all the plugs, move the crank until all the pistons are about 1/2 way up & pour about 3 ounces of fluid down the sprk plug hole. It will eventually drip past the ring gap & into the oil pan. You have to change the oil afterwards because it's full of carb cleaner.

Initially I bought a gallon of berrymans' B12 and I did 2 treatments about a week apart (500 miles). Oil change after each treatment

I drove it about 5000 miles & then I tried it again with Berryman's carb-dip.
I did 2 treatments with that about a week apart (about 500-1000 miles)
This time, I carefully drained the oil before & saved it. Once all the cleaner drained into the pan (overnight), I threw the cleaner away & refilled the used oil & drove it another week.

I drove that for another oil change interval (5000 miles), then I did one last treatment with carb-dip, and changed the oil.

Compression check 1000 miles after that:
Dry 155-148-140-155 (average 150)
Wet 175-135-145-150 (average 151)
note that the wet numbers dont go up. No ring leak any more.

I cleaned up the soot at the tailpipe & it has not come back. (9 months later)
I can go an entire oil change & I'm only about 1/2 way down the dipstick. Oil is still honey colored at oil change time.

Unfortunately, the cat is already ruined. Too much oil went down the tailpipe before I fixed the issue.

I'm not due for another smog check for about 6 months, so I might try some el-cheapo CAT cleaning tricks before I burn $1400 for a new CAT.

It worked for me. Try at your own risk.