Need help priming my 1st gen's oil pump

My 2000 2WD MT 2.4L 2RZ-FE engine has been partially "overhauled in place," and I was trying to do a first start procedure yesterday. It failed to develop any oil pressure.

I had added the oil and coolant as best I could without a running engine, and was using a coolant high rise reservoir funnel thing that lets the water system take what it needs as the engine begins running. Also, I had filled the oil filter with fresh oil before installing it.

Prior to doing the procedure, I had bought an Oil Pressure Test Kit from HF so I could monitor the oil pressure as I cranked the engine without fuel, to get an initial oil prime. I had packed the pump with Vasoline (maybe not completely packed, but a lot). During 20 (more or less) short attempts (averaging 3 to 4 seconds each) of turning the engine over, the oil pressure gauge never moved.

Now, I am trying to think the problem through and get good advice so the next step I take is the last, so I don't do more harm to the totally oil-less engine. I know the oil pressure gauge is working because I removed it and used compressed air to operate it from the adapter end of the hose. Also, that adapter end of the hose did not show any evidence of oil ever touching it inside, another verification that oil pressure never happened.


I am thinking the problem is most likely that air got trapped in the oil pickup tube from when I added the first oil fill to the engine after it was all put together again. One thing I am wondering is if I poured enough oil through the oil pressure switch hole so it drops by gravity to the pump, would it maybe pass through the pump and on into the pickup tube air cavity, whether it would somehow reduce the size of the air bubble? For that, I think the oil might just pass through and enter the sump without helping anything.


To be completely honest, at the end of each run there was an unnerving noise that my brother said made him think of the starter letting go of the flywheel. I could not tell you what it made me think was happening that caused that sound. Never did this before, cepting once on my 1994 Celica when I had rebuilt its engine after an overheat disaster, and I cannot remember how we got it started, but it did run, and ran well.


And, I think finally, I watched a YouTube video of a fellow who used a home garden spray bottle connected to an adapter that fit into the oil pressure switch hole and the bottle had about a couple of quarts of oil, and he was saying that he was able to push oil into the system such that it pushed oil to the topside (under the valve cover) and from there kinda throughout the engine.

I was thinking that must have including pushing oil from above into and maybe through the pump, but again, what would that accomplish. I think that guy was trying to get oil pressure just like I am?

Anyone know of a way to block the upper side of the oil passage at the sensor hole so I might plug in a vacuum pump to suck the air out of the oil pickup tube?


Any thoughts from someone who has been through this would be appreciated.

 

Hmmm

on a relic V8….. I have seen the dizzy removed and they fab a tool to spin engine to prime

Pretty sure u don’t have dizzy
So to prime OP would have to spin crank shaft bolt. As long as timing correct, theoretically would work
Maybe remove plug for less resistance as well as accessory belts

then use that oil pressure gauge to confirm

 

Thanks for that response, Steven. That is helpful. I have the belts all in place, so will remove them. Not using power steering, AC or alternator during the first start. Water pump is also unnecessary? Removed the plugs late in the day, but will not put them back.

The starter motor spins the engine, so that spins the crank-shaft bolt, right? I feel pretty sure the timing is set correctly.

With that much less load, how long should I let the crank spin each time I try, before damage sets in?

I am assuming that the crank-pulley is turning the inner oil pump gear properly, but that is one of my suspects. Someone said on the forum that the gears have marks that need to be aligned a certain way, and I don't remember being concerned about that when assembling. Because the pump was packed with Vaseline, I expected it to prime right away, but after maybe 20 short tries, not a single movement of the pressure gauge. Oil never came out of the pump, at least never got to the level of the pressure sensor.

 

My Oreilly's Auto parts has a loaner pressurized oil primer tool. You pay and get a refund when you return the tool. part number TO02

 

There was a guy who had a similar oil pressure issue. What he ended up discovering is that the gaskets for the pump/front cover housing were aftermarket and too thick, the gear driven oil pump was cavitating in place.

 

Interesting langing

I think starter method u mentioned would be much easier than trying to turn crank bolt. Just remove plugs and fuel pump fuse
Hell, think could keep all acc. Belts on

water pump won’t matter bc motor not running

as far as # times cranking……
Myself, would be cranking 5 times then read OP gauge. Then repeat
If nothing on gauge, would pour 2-3 TBL spoons of oil thru empty spark plug holes
Then repeat crank process

lastly or shit maybe firstly
Would see if the OP gasket is incorrect (covering a oil jacket) like Glamisman/other thread said
Let everyone know what results are

 

I would think you could tell if oil pump cover gasket is issue by seeing if it sits flush to block. And I packed mine with Vasoline when I replaced it. That cover sits flush flush. Hard to get it started off, no gap to pry from. Any gasket too big would have to make it stick out, gap.
.

 

Thanks, @mechmn1. From the name of that tool (pressurized oil primer tool), I will certainly have to take a close look at it. Have you used it on your 2000 Tacoma, and know it could be useful in my case? Maybe you could tell me a little more about how it works?

My conscience is telling me that, since I already tried many times without nary a bit of oil being pumped through to the point where the gauge screws in, I should first take off all the belts and try to get down to and take off the crank pulley, and then the oil pump, to make sure the crank pulley is turning the oil pump gears before I do anything else. Somewhere I read that there are markings on the two gears showing how they should be arranged when installing, but I didn't know that when I put it together.

And also, since my original problem was oil sludge under the valve cover, and I took the valve and timing covers off, along with the oil pan, so the engine has been totally without oil for a long time, and just turning it over can be harming it. Thanks for the good idea.

 

Yes @Glamisman, I remember that guy with the oversize (aftermarket) oil pump gasket who could not get his oil pump to prime. Most of the parts I have used have been OEM because of the criticality of the functions I have been working on, so the current oil pump gasket is OEM, as are the two timing cover to block gaskets, as well as the timing cover itself. I will check to see how the pump gasket is doing when I take off the pump cover to examine the gears. Thanks for putting that extra check into my mind before I forge ahead.

 

The primer tool is basically a metal pressure vessel. You fill it with oil and add air pressure. The pressurized oil is pushed thru a hose that you connect to the oil pressure switch port on the engine. This fills all the oil passages and bearings with oil without turning over the engine. I used it on my Tacoma (3.4L) after replacing the heads. Had oil pressure almost instantly on first crank. At our Oreilly Auto parts (not sure if you have them) the tool is part of their loaner tool program. They charge you for the tool, but refund the money as long as the tool is returned in 48 hrs. I use this tool on all new engines I have installed.

 

Thanks, Steven. I love your motto, and am interested in knowing more about your "LSPV Delete."

Good to hear your opinions. They help reinforce the most important things I need to keep in mind.

As for the # times cranking. . . the oil pressure gauge I bought has a long hose that reaches the windshield, so I can turn the ignition switch and watch the needle on the gauge at the same time. The pressure needle never wiggled in any way, but afterwards, when I took it out and used compressed air, it moved freely over its full range, and there was no oil residue inside, telling me there never was any oil pressure. Putting oil into each of the four cylinders periodically seems to me like an excellent addition to the startup procedure. What kind of oil would you recommend? My brother told me to go out and buy Marvel Mystery Oil (which I did), but when I read the label, thought it might not be viscous enough to get down the cylinder walls past the piston.

Will continue to post every result.

 

Kroil or light machine oil, crank with no plugs in it. With no plugs, there is essentially no load placed on the pistons, rod, crank bearings, or anywhere else basically. As long as there is oil, even residual on rotating parts, it'll be fine to crank.

PS, stupid question but is there oil in the pan?

[Don't laugh, I know of someone who is pretty skilled rebuilding engines that drained their oil, got called off on something for a few hours and forgot all about finishing up, didn't really go very well or cheaply for that matter..............

 

Thanks for the pictures, @THatt. You are absolutely correct. When the pump is seated and screwed down, it is totally flush, and also, as you said, hard to get off, until you do some work on it. The OEM gasket is rather thin, come to think of it. I don't remember putting any sealant or anything in the channel in the cast aluminum cover that the rubber gasket gets put into. Do you? Toyota makes a rubber sealant that has a strange name in the FSM. I bought some. Maybe that could be used.



In this photo I have set the gears such that the points opening and the points closing are approximately equal. When opening they create a vacuum that causes sucking of oil from the oil pan, and when closing they create a pressure that pushes oil up into the engine. Since the crank turns clockwise, the opening points are on the left and the closing are on the right. Looking down below the gears, you can see two chambers, on the left is the chamber leading to the oil pickup tube and the chamber on the right is the access to the oil system of the engine, leading to the topside and all other oil galleries. Once you develop a "prime" there is no more air on the input side from the pickup tube, just oil, and the same goes on the other side, just oil, with all molecules in touch with each other, so the prime never breaks until you disassemble the engine again.

Notice that there is a point where the two gears are touching one another. That is above the aluminum divider wall. As the gears both move around the circle defined by the crankshaft and pulley, that point looks stable and unmoving, yet both gears are moving to and past that point constantly. That point has to be where it is because the crankshaft has just that relationship with the oil pump, within engineering tolerances. The timing cover in this photo is beautiful, but violates the OEM specs, so the oil pump cannot work in the 2000 Tacoma. It had to be replaced (after all the work installing it). Luckily I was dealing with PartSouq.com. They gave my money back so I could buy their last Toyota OEM timing cover, and did not have to ship back this work of aluminum casting art.

 

That's a beautiful thing, @mechmn1, if it does what you say. I think I should pick one up after checking out the pump and its gears and gasket, to make sure I haven't damaged it. That's all I can think of that would have prevented developing a prime. Perhaps I installed it incorrectly somehow. Can't imagine how that could be, but I surely didn't get any oil out. I do remember that the woodruff key was a little sad looking, but the pulley seemed to "slip on" as the FSM said it should, and seemed to drop onto the key, or maybe that was my imagination.

Does that tool have the BSPT thread needed for the oil pressure sensor hole, or will I have to get an adapter to go from NPT to BSPT?

One question about how it works. It pushes oil both ways once inside the block, up to the filter and beyond to all oil galleries, and the opposite direction, to the oil pump, pushing oil backwards through the pump, and on into the oil pan by way of the pickup tube. I'm thinking that air might be trapped inside the pickup tube, and wondering how that tool eliminates that air bubble. Is it perhaps because of its high pressure pushing so much oil into the pickup tube that it drives the air out as a bubble coming out of the pickup tube? Maybe you don't know this answer, but I am just laying it out for you or anybody who might want to respond.

Very much appreciate your contribution.

BTW: I called O'Reilly and found that they don't have any loaner tool with a number like TO02 (or T002), but their numbering system starts with a 67, then things like 001, etc. The young woman I talked with was looking at a "place mat" thingy on her counter that listed a bunch of items they rent, as you said, and didn't see what I was asking for. I asked her to read all of the items, and she got exasperated, saying that there were way more than she felt like reading to me, that I should stop by and take a look, which I will do asap.

Is it possible that the last engine you installed was done a long time ago, and maybe their numbering system has changed? Or maybe it was another auto parts store? She said that they rent the same tools country wide, so wherever you live they would probably rent the same tool to you as they would to me. It's a ten minute trip to go there, so I will try to break free asap.

 

How can I not laugh, @fxntime? That's just too funny to me. Takes me back to when I was a super young kid who had a job mowing the grass of a neighbor. I had done it many times when this happened. I pulled his mower out of his garage, pulled the starter cord, and the mower was running fine. . . part of his yard then had some overgrown stuff that I was right in the middle of mowing down when the mower's tune changed pretty radically as it just stopped turning. I looked down at it and saw a cherry red glowing object putting off a large amount of heat, and making these strange twanging noises as the ambient air cooled it down.

My neighbor wanted to kill me, frankly, but he didn't because it wasn't exactly my fault since at that time I was more like a blank slate. I had no idea about oil in an engine, so actually never ever checked his mower's oil level (that immediately changed). Might have been my first real job ever. When he calmed down, he realized that when he had taken it to a mower shop to have maintenance done on it, including an oil change, they had not refilled the mower with oil. I started and ran a lawnmower that was absolutely dry of oil! I've come a long way since then, but I am still wise enough to know that fully grown and educated people do sometimes get distracted and do something equivalent to what I did way back, and people who actually know about oil feel really bad about it, and wish they had someone to blame rather than themselves. And sometimes it can be a very expensive mistake.

So, it is NOT a stupid question, and how would you know the answer without asking? If there was no oil, I would never get a prime, just as I have been saying.

But, not only is there oil in the oil pan, there is too much oil in there, and one thing I still have to do is reduce the amount before running the engine.

Right now I have the plugs taken out, and will not replace them until I have a prime and am set to "start the engine."

Residual oil? All of my work on this engine was going toward removal of oil sludge, and I used a lot of diesel fuel as a solvent, starting under the valve cover, and I spent a long period of time in that area, cleaning everything, with diesel running down the valve stems and seats and into the combustion chambers and on into the rest of the engine and finally into the oil pan. Then I removed the timing cover and did my cleaning thing inside there and replaced most of the timing parts, including the timing chain. And then removed the oil pan and cleaned it out and then went up into the bowels of the beast as best I could. At that point I made a critical decision, thinking that I had long ago thought that there was a leak from the rear main seal. So I ended up rebuilding the manual transmission (a very ugly job just "dropping" it and putting it back, if you have the basic 1st Gen Tacoma where the cross-member is welded on), added a new clutch, you know, whatever or anything I might kick myself for not doing "since I was already nearly there" and hadn't done that job. From all that, I have very little faith that there is much "residual oil" still inside the engine. That's why I am so concerned about finding the issue before cranking it yet again.

Right now there is oil in the pan, but no oil in the engine, NADA!

So, supposing I buy some Kroil to put through the spark plug holes, hoping it can pass by the pistons and perhaps oil up a little of the rods and maybe get a little on the crank. It is certainly not going to oil the engine, but maybe it could help a little? How much should I add to each cylinder, and after adding, should I turn the engine over by hand several times or once or what should I do when the Kroil is in the combustion area?

 

sorry for the duplicate, new at this. this is from today

 

That would be an O'Reilly web page?

 

Yes that is an Oreilly Auto Parts web page from today. I am in California.

 

Thanks, I am going to O'Reilly's now.