Moog suspension parts

Does anyone have experience with MOOG upper and lower control arms and sway bar links? I have a shop claiming they can't align my front wheels while also keeping my steering wheel centered. I replaced my stock suspension parts with MOOG and I added OME 885s with 5100s up front.

I made marks on the chassis and cam wheels before disassembly to try to return the cams to the same location. I put it back after swapping the parts and noticed an excessive amount of what appeared to be toe out. I am not sure what happened, or if the shop just doesn't want to deal with me but something is going on. They got the alignment within spec but can't get the steering wheel straight.

Any insight you all have would be awesome. Going to pick it up from the shop now, I'll post the printout from the alignment rack and take pics if needed.

Thanks in advance!

 

Moog is ok and OEM will last longer from my experience.

If they cant get the wheel straight, maybe its not the truck?

 

Yeah. I figured nothing beats OE but I was already at the top of my budget for this. 160K I'm doing kind of a complete run through of everything since I plan to keep the truck indefinitely and give it to my son.

I really don't think it's the truck, but I wanted to see if anyone had any issues with aftermarket parts not being quite identical to OE. If part numbers were wrong or i installed them on the wrong side of the vehicle somehow there would be no way to get it in spec.

I'm trying another shop that deals with heavily modified vehicles. If they can't fix it maybe there's a bigger issue.

Thanks for the reply!

 

We’ve seen issues with all brands, moog is honestly getting better.

for ball joints we always recommend oem.

My only issue with moog is the low quality boots that don’t seal moisture.

 

i put a moog lower control arm on my first get so far so good. I tried moog sway bar links also but they were crap, went back to oem

 

did the Moog sway bar links just wear out quickly? I liked that they came with grease zerks. I guess i'm old school like that.

 

What setting are the 5100’s? With the 885’s, the setting should be at zero lift. Otherwise, camber may be beyond limits of oem UCA. I have the same setup. My 5100’s are at zero lift setting. When I got my alignment done, the tech dude said the alignment settings were right at the limits.

 

Yeah, the 5100s are set at the first notch. Before and after, I measured it at exactly 1.5" above stock. Even at the limits were they able to keep your steering wheel straight? After a second try they were able to get the wheel almost straight but the left front camber is .2 degrees out.

 

The centering of the steering wheel is determined by the toe alignment. The adjustment is on the tie rods and I can’t picture their issue with that as there are plenty of threads on the oem tie rods. I learned to do my own toe alignment cause I occasionally knock it out of alignment when off-roading. Just need string, jack stands, and ruler. Plus wrenchs. Several videos on this.

 

I am glad you said that, because that makes sense in my brain lol. I would think the tie rods would be how to adjust the steering wheel back straight. I even asked them about adjusting the tie rods. I just think they didn't want to deal with it because it wasn't as straightforward as maybe they're used to. Maybe I'll give the string method a go. Thanks for the reply.

 

Sometimes there is miscommunication between the tech guys and the counter guys. Maybe talking to the actual dude working on your alignment may clear things up.

 

I have experience throwing the front sway bar into the trash

may have used Moog to rebuild OE LCA.

Sounds like something between you and the shop.
I see the camber is excessively positive, steering wheel is not straight according to post,
caster is uneven and out of spec on one side.

You say the alignment is in spec.
No, it is not.
Crooked steering wheel is not spec. Red caster is not spec. Uneven both sides is not spec.
1.3deg of positive camber is not spec.

If the machine is in the green, that does not mean it is good. The center of that bar shows ideal point that can be reached via adjustment and time; an alignment.
Having a bad spec in the green is the same as throwing a spoon of cereal at my nose when trying to eat breakfast and saying Close Enough.
That's why it shows numbers to read.

Straightening a steering wheel by adjusting the tie rods yourself is easy to do. However, that does not fix incorrect camber or caster.

A tech would know what numbers are good, what vehicle behavior it will result in. Uneven on both sides is typically bad.

No, the Tacoma is not a straightforward alignment. And the labor charge is supposed to reflect more hours because of that, like on any other more complicated suspension vehicle. The Tacoma is one of them.
Or, not really more hours or the same, simply that due to the fact while the Tacoma has a more complicated front adjustment, the rear is fixed therefore does not need adjustment. Compared to quoting an alignment on a sedan with labor hours to account for having to adjust front and rear.

Dealer techs report having to jack up the front to adjust alignment without damaging stock tab mounts. That's more work.

It has adjustable camber, caster, toe, which requires doing a caster sweep on the machine, possibly multiple times. The LCA adjustments affect toe. This adds time.
Versus other cars that have a subframe bolted onto the unibody with centered camber (provided no collision), no adjustment for caster, and simply tie rods to set the toe.

The machine that printout came from explains it all.

Setting toe with spring will not resolve camber or caster adjusted by the LCA cams.

Uncorrected Taco lean can change suspension geometry.
Too much lift can mess with things, like causing positive camber.

 

Heres my Moog end links 9 months after installing.

 

Oh nooooo. That's hot garbage... I'm in Arizona too so I don't have high hopes these will make it any longer than yours did.

 

invisible sway bar links last forever

 

Thanks for the education. Is there a better aftermarket sway bar or you just run without it?

I should have been more clear in my original post. I did add a 1/4 inch spacer on the drivers side to fix the lean. The numbers I posted originally were the second attempt at getting everything straight. Here's the first attempt where the steering wheel was pointed to the right about 5-10 degrees.

I'm not sure why they didn't adjust the tie rods to correct the steering wheel, they told me they were messing with caster and camber to get it in. I'm a helicopter mechanic, not an auto mechanic but I think I get the general idea of how this all works. If in the green is not "in spec" how can I ensure that the numbers are in spec? Is there a standard measurement somewhere that I can reference?

 

I don’t have a sway bar. It’s an off road truck meant to articulate.
Sway bars force the other side suspension to do what the opposite side does. This causes worse ride on road. If the left side hits a bump, it now jars more of the truck.

no sway bar, clearance, or end links to deal with.

straightening the steering wheel is a part of an alignment. A place that does not do that should not be handed vehicle keys.

I don’t think camber should be a degree positive. Mine is at 0. Positive camber looks ugly and causes outside edge wear and less tire contact.

green is a loose guideline on a stock truck to send old lady down the road who cares how the truck is or if the tires last.
Center of green is programmed to be dead on. Not just barely in the window.

things change when the suspension is modified in terms of what it is capable to be set to before running out of adjustment. Or excessive lift causing positive camber.

this is something a competent tech can play with, not Cleetus setting steering wheel crooked.

Some manufacturers program their spec to have some toe.
Zero toe makes the car happy to turn and is often used on track. Less tire wear. It requires you driving the car

but some manufacturers list their spec as some toe for straight line stability and the wheel centering itself, at the cost of fighting the car to turn, it being less happy to turn, and taking more effort to turn, so that the general public can drive with no hands and their eyes closed.

vehicles with some toe, or toe that changes due to suspension geometry, can also toe the tires during squat accel or braking dive to keep it in a straight line.
For example a stock Audi. They don’t want it turning or drifting. They want the driver faced with under steering into a wall, stopping, and not going fast. Certain models at least.

supposedly certain aftermarket UCAs when lifted are also recommended as being able to achieve better alignment numbers.

a dedicated shop that specializes would be better than CrookedWheel Cleetus, if you don’t have the tools to DIY it. Chain shops are probably not the place to go for any type of quality work.

I haven’t checked but hopefully the FSM lists allowable specs. The Hunter machine may as well, if they don’t also list that online.

On this suspension the machine typically does not refresh a current reading until another caster sweep is done. To read what the truck is actually at, after the adjustments.
It is a possible a person may not care, do an adjustment, print the paper, without another caster sweep to update and read verify showing what it’s actually at.

Regardless, if the steering wheel is crooked, it was done wrong. Nothing to speculate.
I have done alignments. They are not comebacks. I do not release the vehicle until it is good. If I release it wrong, I’d expect you fire me immediately.
If the customer is paying for an alignment, then the job is to do an alignment.
Agreeing to be paid for a service and not doing it is theft. If it is shit during the road test (such as a machine issue, which happens) I bring it back and wrench more.

 

mine would not hold alignment because my frame was rotted out at the pass cab mount

was like riding on under inflated rear tires even when fully inflated to max PSI