Hydraulic Winch Setup

Hey all, so I'm wanting to be in the market for a winch sometime in the next year and I'm strongly looking at hydraulic. It seems from the research I've done that when properly set up they can out-perform electric. I don't plan to use it a lot but for some reason the hydraulic appeals to me more than electric.

I've read that the factory Toyota power steering pump is not adequate for running a winch so my first idea was that I could get a 12v hydraulic pump and use it to run the winch. I know some lighter duty tow trucks use a system like this. The problem is that I couldn't find an electric DC pump to put out the minimum 3.5 gpm that milemarker requires. And pumps that come close draw so many amps that I may as well get an electric winch.

My next thought was that I'd mount a mechanical pump on a custom bracket to the front of my engine and utilize an electromagnetic clutch to activate it. Possibly sourcing one from an old A/C pump if compatible. Mechanical pumps can be easily found that put out the required gpm and they are not terribly expensive. I would then build and mount a custom tank for the hydraulic oil so the system would be completely stand alone from the oem equipment. I envision just flipping a switch to engage the clutch on the pump and winching as much as I need to with no fear of overheating. As long as the engine is running, of course.

I just need to find a pump that puts out 3.5 gpm or more at idle speed, roughly 600-700rpm. I suppose pump rpm can be adjusted with different pulley sizes. A pulley equal in size to the crank pulley would match pump rpm to engine rpm, right?

As far as pump displacement, the winch requires 3.5 gpm at 1500 psi. I rounded up to 4.0 in my calculations so I'm not at the minimum. There's 231 cu in per gallon, so times 4 gpm that's 924 cu in/min. At a pump speed of 600 rpm (engine idle) the pump would have to supply 1.54 cu in/revolution. The only thing I'm not sure about is how the pressure figures in. The pumps I've looked at online are not rated in the same way milemarker specified (gpm @ 1500 psi).

Lookin at this guy...

http://m.globalindustrial.com/m/p/p...ump-1-52-cu-in-rev-spline-9-tooth-shaft-shaft

I also need to explore the interface between the pump and clutch. Many pumps I've seen have a splined shaft, but I think I would have to find one with a round shaft with a key way to mate with a clutch, I haven't seen any clutches with a splined input.

So wutchall think? Anyone ever explore this type of project? I've found very little info out there. None of this is set in stone, I'm just thinking out loud here.

Thoughts?

 

I've used hydraulic winches quite a bit, and like them. It's quite a bit off fabricating though, and high pressure oil always find a way to leak eventually.

I'd suggest setting it up with electric controls in the cab, that way you can used the throttle to control the winch speed, and then you can steer and use the brakes too.

 

I think it's a really cool idea. You should verify the displacement of your OEM power steering pump though, don't just assume it's inadequate because the internet says so. It would be a lot easier to adapt a different power steering pump than to set up a separate hydraulic pump for the winch. There are several aftermarket companies that make high-performance power steering pumps for off-road applications, and EVCO or Hose and Rubber can make the hydraulic lines and fittings happen. Best of luck!

 

Cool man I'll check into it! I think I did read something about someone adapting an old saginaw pump...

I read from a few different sources that the Toyota pump is a bit under powered for winch operations, but you're right, it is the internet after all. I'll try to find specs on it.

 

Is there a significant weight difference between electric and hydraulic winches - not the extra pump, if needed, just the winch itself?

 

Not sure.

Read around pirate 4x4 and discovered you can get more pressure by"shimming" the pump. I don't know what that means right now. But the only way to get more flow is to increase rpm, thus a smaller pulley may work but it would be more apt to slip.

Found this though, it's marketed toward hydro assist or ram steering but it should work for winching. Price ain't too too bad...

https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/PS_Pu...si_/i_0_0_540/_130329-1-KIT.aspx#.ViKOJV_D-2c

 

Here's a nice kit but pricey... and only for first gen. Since I'd have to make a mounting bracket anyway I'd probably get the pump for the 3.4 as it has better specs.

I like the cooler and bigger reservoir, but you could maybe piece it together for less. The pump's about $240, so $260 for reservoir, cooler and hoses... maybe... would be close probably...

Edit... forgot link...

https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/2_7L_Tacoma_Rock_Assault_PS_Pump_Kit/i_0_0_538/_130101-1-KIT.aspx Ii

 

The weight is almost identical, within a few pounds. Electric is definitely cheaper, unless you look at top of the line offerings like Warn Zeon Platinum with synthetic rope and wireless control. I still like the hydro, just seems more bad ass.

 

Electric may end up heavier since many folks decide to run dual batteries.

 

If you figure this shit out, document everything including part numbers. You will become a TacomaWorld god. Might even be able to make a few bucks...

 

I'd personally shy away from using the power steering pump... I'm not guessing it's made to work that hard for that long of a time. And if you broke it while you were out. Fun. I'd be much more comfortable with a separate system.

 

Seems overly complicated for something that when you need it, you need it. In those cases, such as extraction I want my winch to work.

Electric is dead simple and works.

 

Disagree. As long as you set up a different system, it's not the kind of thing that's going to break without use. Its inherently simple, equal to or more simple than electric.

 

Bingo! Electromagnetic clutches specifically designed for hydraulic pumps mounted to vehicle engines!

http://www.warnerelectric.com/EnginePumpCompressorClutches.asp

I really like the idea of it being a stand alone system rather than using the power steering pump. I still gotta see if there's room on the motor to mount something like this...

http://m.globalindustrial.com/m/p/p...3-4-dia-straight-shaft-28-52-gpm-max-3600-rpm

also found this...

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200321055_200321055

This one is a two stage pump. It moves a high volume of fluid at relatively low pressure until it meets resistance, at which point it automatically switches internally to a different set of gears and produces lower volume but much higher pressure. I'm wondering if, in a winching application, this pump would allow for quick spooling under no load (re-wrapping the line after a pull) and still provide adequate pressure and volume to achieve full strength from the winch. Could be best of both worlds. In the description it describes using this pump in a log splitter. It allows fast ram movement until the log is engaged by the wedge, then it slows down and provides the power (pressure) necessary to split the wood. Sounds promising.

Man, this is a whole can of worms isn't it?

 

Yea, that's the one main drawback from the hydro systems. But practically speaking even with an electric winch the engine should be runnng to supply the needed amperage. I've heard you can winch from the battery alone (engine off) but its a huge strain on the electrical system. And you can ususally only get 60 seconds or less.

 

A 1970 Travelall with a V8 and automatic was likely much heavier than a DC v6. I had one buried in enough muck that the doors would not open.

The 'armor' style bumper we had with an electric winch pulled us out, albeit with a bit of strain. All cable.

The previous '68 Travelall was a 6 4spd, but had a PTO winch. THAT was a powerful winch. I was able to rescue a semi tractor (with empty trailer) that was bogged down in ball bearing sand up to his rims.

I understand the hydraulic would likely fall between those two in power and maybe even complexity/maintenance.

And while it's cool and all, the question is do you really need it? As mentioned, the electric winch is quite robust, simple and durable.

 

I'll certainly agree that an electric winch is probably simpler to install and cheaper and powerful enough. I still like the hydraulic option just because it's different. It's something not many have done on a tacoma and it's an exciting challenge.

It's kinda like the mountain climber thing, you know, "because it's there"

I've been reading over the past few days to get a basic understanding of hydraulic systems and pump requirements. I've learned a lot and if that's as far as I get, at least I got some knowledge out of this!

 

If you get stuck somewhere in the process, there are probably a few companies in Pittsburgh that upfit work bodies and accessories on commercial truck chassis. I'd bet they have a wealth of knowledge and easy access to parts.

 

Quite a few vehicles power hydraulic pumps off the crank pulley .

Radiator custom fitted to allow the drive shaft to the pump .

unlike your use those pumps run all the time.

It seems like quite a lot of work just so you can brag you have a hydraulic winch.

Any excuse to keep from going home to the wife or girl friend !!

 

It seems like a lot of work but 90% of it is intellectual. It's like a big puzzle and sure as hell better than sudoku! At the end of this brain teaser, instead of a paper full of numbers, my truck has a bad ass winch!