Heavier springs affect tongue weight?

Recently upgraded my suspension with the heavy Dakar springs which are designed with a base weight of 600 lbs...

if my factory tongue weight limit is 600 lbs does this increase that to more?

I can’t imagine it would be 1200 lbs but I would like to calculate the number

 

your weight ratings are not changed. If it was 600 before the upgrade, it’s still 600 after.

 

that doesn’t make sense. If I put a 600 lb bumper on it (which the springs were designed for) then by that logic I am already overloaded right?

unless I am not understanding correctly?

I’d like to have two dirt bikes in my bed and still haul an ultralight trailer if possible...this is where this is coming from.


Thanks

 

Your tongue weight is part of your total payload weight rating. Take the weight of your dirt bikes plus the weight of all passengers and cargo and subtract from your payload rating and the remainder will be the tongue weight you can handle. Example: my payload is rated at 1000lbs. Passenger, cargo and truck box load comes in at 455lbs leaving me 545 for tongue weight. My trailer tongue weighs 400 so I’m good. Even though my max tongue weight is rated at 640, in this case I can’t exceed 545. It’s different in each case no doubt but you need to be guided by the factory weight ratings for your vehicle. You can’t change those even with beefed up suspension.

Good idea to get your rig onto a CAT scale so you know the exact weights you're dealing with.

 

The various weight ratings are determined by the manufacturers. No matter what you do to a truck you cannot change the manufactures weight ratings once it leaves the factory. The manufacturers weight ratings are published and are shown on the drivers side door jamb and in the owners manual. You can beef up a truck with heavy duty springs, shocks, brakes and other mods which may technically increase the total weight your truck can haul or tow but it still doesn’t change the manufacturer’s weight ratings.
The problem and concern is even if your truck is modified and beefed up and you are towing or hauling in excess of manufacturer’s weight ratings and you have a serious accident with injuries your insurance may not cover you and you may get your ass sued into poverty. No one can say for sure if that would or wouldn’t happen but you are definitely taking a chance hauling/towing over the weight ratings.

 

Rear axle is what determines tongue weight and payload etc. Combined with suspension and tires.

These trucks aren't towing beasts anyways so I would never go near any of the limits set by the manufacturer.

 

Thanks for explaining that!

We havent actually purchased the trailer yet, Just trying to determine all the calculations yet before doing so.. I was hoping to have the dirtbikes (600 lbs) in the bed of the truck and still be able to pull an ultralight 3,000-3500 lb trailer (tongue weight of 350) but I am not so sure I can do that now (wife and I combined weight of 330) even if we store the gear in the camper instead of the truck....

May be looking at buying a second, larger truck if we want to do this...

 

Looking at the GVWR (5350) and the Curb weight (3950) I have calculated the max load of the truck at 1400 lbs.

I am well within my specs to carry two dirt bikes, passengers and haul the small trailer keeping an eye on tongue weight (putting gear in the trailer to save payload capacity)

Thanks all

 

Are those real world numbers off the scale and doorjamb sticker or from the internet? The truck's payload is listed on the yellow and white door jamb sticker. If you want the exact right payload weigh your truck on the scale and subtract that from the door jamb GVWR that will give you the actual payload.

 

600 for two dirt bikes? my ktm was only 230 and that was a heavy bitch

 

Ill get it on a scale. the curb weight is from the manufacturer but you are correct. I googled it. GVWR is from the door jam sticker

I wanted to be conservative. dirtbikes are 250 dry...so I figured with oil and fuel id list them as 300....In reality I think I will take a few trips to the local weigh station to know for sure.

 

FYI, the tongue wait max of 600lbs is the rating of the receiver hitch and the frame rails, leaf springs do not increase the strength of those components

A hitch drawbar should also have a rating for tongue and max trailer weight

Also, if you put 600lbs tongue weight on the hitch, which applies an overhung load about 3 feet behind rear axle, it will take weight off the front axle and transfer it to the rear, so that the rear axle will see maybe 800lbs, even though you only put 600lbs on the hitch

 

Honestly I wouldnt do it.

I have a popup camper - on the days I throw my 60 lb cooler plus my 85 lb generator in the bed, even with helper springs I'm over max payload with those small items and I can feel it. These trucks really make you choose between trailer or hauling, but not both.

 

Dirt bikes in the bed ain’t tongue weight either.
Frame rails can be boxed. Airbags can be added. Axles can be upgraded. So can engine power and brakes...

just do it, OP, and see how it goes. I would, if I were you. There’s a ridiculous tendency in North America to overdo it with tow vehicles. Just look at the rest of the world, they get by just fine and they don’t even have trucks bigger than a hilux typically

 

OP......You need to begin your calcs using the GCVWR of the truck.

The subtract the empty weight of the truck and trailer from the GCVWR. The remaining number is the COMBINED CARGO capacity of the TRUCK & TRAILER.

Now, look at the GVWR of the TRUCK. Subtract empty weight of the truck. This is the cargo capacity of the truck. Now, subtract people, pets, cargo (bikes & mods) and hitch with tongue weight. If the result is negative, then something needs to remain home or load to the trailer. If positive, then you have a little more load capacity.

Now, use the COMBINED CARGO of the TRUCK & TRAILER. Subtract what is loaded on the truck. The remainder is the load for the trailer. Compare this to the cargo capacity of the trailer. If over, then something needs to remain home. If under, then you have a little more load capacity.

Suggest not to exceed 80% of these number. Leave yourself a little head room for braking, accelerating, steering, emergencies, wind.......the unforeseen events of highway travel.....say a flat tire.

Good Luck.

 

Where did I mention I was going to have 600 lbs of tongue weight? I do appreciate the response but I am confused a bit.

Thank you

 

Hi, thanks for the detailed explanation....this is a bit confusing

GCVWR of the truck is 5350

Your explanation says to subtract that from empty weight of the truck and trailer 3950 (truck) - 3500 (trailer)....combined they are 7450

I dont have a trailer yet....but if I follow your instruction the quotient of this calc would be negative 2100....

Something is amiss.....can you clarify your calculations?


Also, From my understanding I responded in post number 8 with an estimate...did you see that?

it doesnt look correct?

 

How are you calculating your payload?

Can you share your method with actual numbers?

Trying to learn. thanks

 

GCVWR = Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating. This is the maximum weight of the truck + trailer. The weight of the entire rig with cargo.

A typical number for these trucks is 11,170 lbs. Note: this is commonly a limiting number. Example: Say you have the truck a max weight (with cargo and tongue load), 5500 lbs. A little math means the trailer with cargo needs to be (11170-5500) is 5670 lbs.

To make a determination of capacity, you really need to know the UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight) of the truck and trailer.

The thing about the truck is owners will modify their truck to "increase" capacity. In reality, they are increasing the UVW of the truck. The GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of the truck doesn't change. The GVWR is a combination of UVW and cargo. Increase the UVW, then the Cargo decreases.

Best thing to do is weigh your truck with all the mods, full tank of fuel and you. Subtract this number from the truck's GVWR to determine your CC (Cargo Capacity).

 

Awesome thanks for explaining this. I was just reading through this to try to find this info you were referencing hahaha..

https://www.readingbody.com/calculating-your-trucks-maximum-payload-and-towing-capacity/#:~:text=The former stands for gross,your loaded truck and trailer.

anyhow...I have a bit of work to do to find out my cargo capacity when towing and if I truly can do it or not

My truck is pretty much stock with the exception of some upgraded suspension components so unlike the guys with 600lbs of bumpers and winch add ons I am in better shape for towing.

I see where I went wrong though....payload capacity of the truck alone is different than payload capacity while towing.