Four Wheel Camper on new 2020 Tacoma

Hi all!
I am new to the forum. I have been reading threads for a while trying to find some information. Theres so much out there I thought I would be start a thread and see if I can get some of my questions answered.

In January my wife and I are purchasing a new 202 Tacoma TRD Off Road Double Cab with 6ft bed and tow package. At the same time we are going to order a new Four Wheel Camper Fleet Model. Four Wheel Camper has about a 4 month build time. During that time, we plan to do the needed modifications on the Tacoma.

I know that the biggest issue for placing a FWC on a Tacoma is the suspension due to the weight. FWC suggests installing Firestone airbags and Daystar cradles. Reading through threads on here, it sounds like we will want to do more suspension upgrades than that. However, I have read dozens of different suggestions and build descriptions...all are different. I know there is no one right answer, but I am hoping to figure out what would be best suited for our situation. I should also add, I am not very mechanically savvy or have a lot of mechanical or truck build out knowledge....so I am kind of starting from scratch here.

A little background about our planned use for the rig. My wife and I are both nurses and get long six day weekends twice a month. We live in the Sierra Mountains and pretty much camp every time we are off work. We have 3 dogs and a kiddo on the way. We never camp in actual campgrounds..we try to get far away from people as possible. That almost always means dirt roads and 4x4 trails. having said that, we won't be using the rig for any serious wheeling or rock crawling, but we want it capable enough to get us deep into the backcountry and be able to handle moderate 4x4 trails. The Tacoma will also be my daily driver, so we will be taking the FWC off the Tacoma when not in use. From what I understand, that can cause some problems with the suspension...it can become a rough ride when the camper is off, if the suspension is not done correctly.

Long story short...I am hoping to get some input into what suspension modifications I should plan to do. I think the airbags and cradles are obvious. But in addition to that, should I plan un upgrading the leafs? Coils? shocks? And what products would you suggest?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you have!

 

Specifications on the camper would be helpful. Have a link to it?

 

https://fourwheelcampers.com/model/fleet-model-pop-up-truck-camper-leader-mid-size-trucks/

 

Thanks, I didn’t realize that was actually a brand name.

 

Here's a good thread if you haven't already checked it out:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...ur-wheel-camper-adventure-ready-setup.565774/

https://advrider.com/index.php?thre...d-tacoma-builds-on-to-new-adventures.1274770/

 

Thanks for the thread suggestion. Ive looked that one over several times. Its a beautiful build. Is all of that necessary or does some of it seem a little overkill? I ask because we are trying to keep a somewhat reasonable budget on the build part and I am assuming that's an expensive build out.

 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/ads-vs-king-group-buy.634937/page-12#post-21939445

Ads and king on sale

 

I have had ride rites for a while. They are pretty stiff with no weight on the truck but you have to keep air in them or the suspension will bottom out on the bunched up air bag, which is now your very uncomfortable bump stop. I put a go pro under my truck and hit potholes at different PSI. I found I need 20psi with no load to keep them from bottoming out over SE PA potholes.

I also experimented with Daystar cradles and do not recommend them. I improvised an RTI ramp and saw no greater flex with them installed on my otherwise stock suspension. I actually got 1/4" more without them. I did notice a much less controlled rebound while unloaded going over speed bumps with the cradles.

Getting proper leaf springs could help a lot of this, but there is no current pre-fabbed way to run proper bump stops with the ride rites, which is the big downside to me.

When I have the roof top tent and all the gear, 25psi makes for a decent ride, but still more harsh than the stock unloaded suspension.

I would figure out your curb weight, add 5%, and call one of the shops that people here will be recommending shortly...

 

Checkout Wander the West, lots of good information in there.

I have a 2010 DCLB and had a 2012 FWC Eagle (discontinued model) that was pretty much loaded, documentation stated 800 empty. I installed Ride Rite airbags before the install and they were a big help, but the truck felt "mushy" and the VSC system would kick in constantly. Not long after I upgraded from the stock TSB springs to an OME suspension with full Dakars and AAL which helped significantly. Anytime we were out on a trail that the frame would flex I would end up snapping one of the front turnbuckles and one time even tore the front passenger side elevator mounting bolt out. I spoke with FWC and upgraded all the elevator mounts with the newer reinforced mounts. I tried changing turnbuckles and still ended up snapping one of the front ones. On Wander the West there seemed to be a lot of people with DCLBs that were having the same problem. The general consensus was more frame flex than the Access Cabs. I also had the passenger side rear wheel bearing and seal go out at 120K miles which I attribute to the weight of the FWC. Consequently I ended up selling the FWC because of the turnbuckle issue, which really sucked. Obviously it was no fault of FWC, they were great people to deal with and the product is fantastic. If I was going to go with another FWC it would be on a 3/4 or 1 Ton truck.

 

Welcome! You're going to love your setup.

We run OME Nitrocharger Sports, 883 coils, with Dakar AALs with an extra leaf added, in addition to the firestone ride rites + daystars. Also took off the sway bar for articulation off road, just drive it accordingly on the road.

I'd recommend also load range E tires.

Similar to you, I had no previous wrenching experience, and this is our first rig. Just research & take your time, you'll learn everything you need to know here and a few other sites already mentioned.

Cheers & good luck on your build! Holler if you have any specific questions on our setup. Excited to see your brand new setup!

 

I have the same truck and a slightly heavier Northstar camper. I installed the Torque airbags (similar to Firestone) and the Daystar cradles. Surprisingly, the truck rides fine when the airbags are under load. It's when the truck is empty that the ride seems a little more bouncy (airbag vs bump stop with stock suspension). After reading @MDFM31 post, I understand the comment about "much less controlled rebound". This must be the bouncy feeling I'm experiencing (again, stock suspension). I'll try bumping up to 20 psi (thank you, @MDFM31).

I've been going back and forth with the many suspension options, but I'll probably be replacing the leaf springs with Dobinsons 2" from here based on the feedback from the thread over here. I might try removing a leaf for light load/empty rear end per the instructions in the Dobinson post. The other option is the Icon RXT kit here with interchangeable leafs.

For shocks, I'll probably go with a Fox Stage 4 with compression adjusters like these. Although, I'm not exactly sure on the length. I'm looking for 1.5" lift in the rear and 2" lift in the front.

Thanks for bringing this up @doff! I appreciate the posts by @Drainbung and @Trowbocop! My previous 1st gen setup (15 years) was similar to @Trowbocop 's. A photo of my current setup is here. GL!

 

i have a 2010 FWC Eagle on a 2013 ACLB with Firestone Ride Rite airbags, daystar cradles, OME Daker Medium Leaf packs and Bilstein 5160 resi shocks.

my experience is very different...

- per firestone you only have to keep 5psi in them when you dont have a heavy load on the truck. i think it is to have the bag keep its shape. if you need 20psi to keep your truck from bottoming out on pot holes you may need other suspension upgrades. with 20psi in mine i can carry over 500lbs additional weight without sagging. i run 30-40 lbs with my FWC on depending on how loaded it is.

- i did a flex test and got more flex with the cradles than i did with the airbag attached on the underside. not sure how you could get less so maybe you meant compared to running without bags. the cradles also give some piece of mind when the truck goes up on the hoist. if you are going to run airbags i recommend them and so do many others.

- i don't think you want the airbags to be controlling the rebound either as thats not their function. again you may need other suspension upgrades. the bags will also act as bump stops even with 5psi in them so you not sure why you would want both.

i think the airbags are great for their intended purpose which is to help carry additional weight without sagging. they do act a little bouncy at times but you would expect that given what they are and better rear shocks helps. i have wheeled with the camper on without a problem. when you are not carrying additional weight you definitely want to run them low as possible but thats the big benefit vs going with super heavy duty leafs and being stuck with a shitty ride unloaded. i have the medium Dakars and still find the unloaded ride too firm with them so i can't imagine running the HDs without weight.

 

That base model camper you posted a link to has a empty weight of over 1000 pounds. My 2017 Tacoma off-road DCLB had a payload of only 900 pounds. You are going to be way over payload with just the camper and the two of you. Once loaded with gear you'll be way way over payload. I don't think air bags will be enough. That weight is gonna be hard on that rear diff bearings and all if you ask me.

Personally I think you need more truck.

 

Of course your experience was very different; your setup is completely different.

Firestone does say you only need 5 psi when unladen, but that is not Tacoma specific. I spent a lot of time with a Firestone tech on the phone when I couldn't keep it from bottoming out at 10-15 psi. Their recommendation was to go higher.

I would expect your RTI to be limited by the bags since you have aftermarket springs which alters the ride height independent of the bags. I got about 1/4" more from running the bags as they were designed then with cradles. Notice that the rest of my suspension is stock. If RTI is important to you bags are the wrong way to go to begin with.

It is not the bags function to control rebound, and it is also not their design to ride in cradles. Understand that you are introducing greater compression rate without giving it any increased rebound limitation when you use cradles, and the stock leaves are doing very little in either direction.

Like I originally said, I think better leaves would help with all of my complaints. However, when I upgrade leaves I will be removing the bags completely for simplicity's sake and I will never have anything like a slide in camper.

 

I would at a minimum, go for the Rancho RS66901R9 suspension system and have that installed by a competent 4x4 shop and aligned, it comes with RS9000 adj shocks, set them at 7, leave them there it will be a stiffer ride but very good control of vehicle. you will still probably need air bags or spring helpers of some sort. I have been running this Rancho suspension system for yrs now on my 06 ORAccC, and I tow and haul a lot of weight in my shell at same time, its night and day better than the oem bilsteins. Makes them look like toys in comparison. Handling is much better than oem. I would also upgrade tires to BFG TA/KO-2's. 10 plys. There are more expensive ways to approach this like Fox 2.5" shocks, new rear leafs, etc. Do what your more comfortable with.

I also agree with the gear change on the 3rd gen, 4.88 should suffice, its a shame to have to nearly rebuild the truck to get to where it will handle weight sufficiently. But its a fact. If I bought new I would probably just go a Tundra TRD double cab 6.5 ft bed Pro model. Another way to go about it would be to buy a 2nd gen 2015 or a bit older with low miles. With a second gen you wouldn't have to regear unless you go larger tires.

http://www.gorancho.com/products/su...pension-system-rs9000xl-shocks-rs66901r9.html

I do agree with the poster above abodyjoe a bigger truck like maybe a Tundra would be best since that 4wheel camper is pretty heavy. The 3.5L in the Tacoma is weak on towing due to lack of torque at low rpms, this is what also causes the transmission to shift so much more than the older 2015 and older models. Missing low end torque. Its a car engine is why. The older 2nd gen 4.0L has much better low end torque so will tow better.

 

So I'm looking to buy a Tacoma OR myself, with the idea to put a camper top of some sort on it. (This will be a second vehicle "overland" build coming from a Jeep TJ and off-road trailer with a roof top tent.)

I have been looking at Four Wheel Campers for sometime. I don't know who you bought your FWC from, but you may want to talk to Main Overland about this Access Cab pictured below that they rent out. I was talking to them at Overland Expo East last month to what they've done to this Tacoma to carry this loaded Fleet. I did mention that I knew this was over payload, and his response was first to say if you're okay legally doing so, it can be setup to handle the weight, as plenty of people have done so. (Be sure to read the rental views as people like it.)

Personally, I was first thinking of a Fleet with everything (1500#s), and then just a shell with a furnace and couch (1050#s), but then I talked to FWC's dealer in WI (as he's closer to me), and he was doing his best to talk me out of Tacoma due to payload (and I've also read a lot of opinions too). At Expo East, I was also talking to the guys that build the Alaskan Camper, which is similar in weight to a FWC, and they were trying to talk me out of even a quarter-ton truck for a three-quarter ton truck due to payload. (After driving a Jeep TJ for years, I'd rather not drive a full-size truck.)

I will also say that I do like FWC's new Project M (450#). You still get their bed and room inside, and I hear that they're working on putting a furnace with it.



But anyway, I'll be following along. There are several Tacoma ORs nearby for sale that I have my eye on.

 

SOLD my tacoma after I decided to buy a FWC. Switched to Tundra instead after GVWR concerns.

 

there is the first sign to run away...lol typical salesman talk there. know how many people buy travel trailers that are way too big/heavy for heir tow vehicle because the salesman says its ok and lots of people do it..

 

Aren't you also over payload?

Two people with gear are easily 500#s, plus consider any aftermarket bumpers, a winch, recovery gear... Even with a FWC's Project M, seems like it would be at payload on a Tacoma.

Here is FWC's Project M on a 2500 Ram.

 

Not a 4Wh Camper but my Alu-Cab weighs in at 1100lbs.

I am running OME +660lb springs and 886X front coils. JBA Upper Control Arms and a set of Firestone Ride Rites w/ Daystar Cradles to supplement the rear end. You could have springs built to hold the entire weight... but you won’t love it when you take the camper off.

I am 100% satisfied with my setup it’s been all the way across the country and back from Coast to Coast.

In addition to suspension you will absolutely want to re-gear. 4.88’s or 5.29’s. Depending on your chosen tire size.

FWIW I looked very hard at 4Wh Campers before deciding the Khaya was a better choice for me. They are pretty darn nice though!