Engine noise/rattle diagnosed; water pump: FIXED:)

So this grinding/rattling noise has been going on for quite some time now. Not sure what it is. I thought it was the idler pulley but replaced that and no change. It's more of a rattling noise than grinding. Kinda like a bearing. I finally was going to attempt to take off the belts one by one, but I noticed just now the tensioner bolt for the idler pulley was missing and decided to wait until I get that replaced. I did remove the power steering belt though but no change. It almost seems like it could be internal with something like the timing belt pulleys or the water pump. But I would assume that the water pump would have gone out by now. It doesnt seem to be leaking. It was low on coolant but If it was leaking I cant tell where its leaking from. But again this has been going on for months now. Maybe a year. And the noise has gradually gotten worse and louder. I want to believe its a timing belt pulley(s). I was planning on getting the whole timing belt/water pump kit and replace everything in there, just have had other financial obligations and cant yet afford the ~$300 to do that yet. So I'm hoping someone can listen and perhaps know exactly what it is just in case its something I'm not thinking of...
All the pulleys and belts seem to be solid and no play anywhere but this was just from my visual inspection...
My only other thoughts would be;
Clutch fan /clutch fan pulleys?
A/C compressor/bearing?
One of the belt pulleys?
Engine internals?

I honestly have no clue when it comes to diagnosing these things. Any help would be great. Need to get this figured out before something terrible happens. Ha. Already put it off for far too long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4UKPnKpGXc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zWEV7n98kE

 

I think your problem could be in post #8 of this thread... http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/1st-gen-tacomas/313705-really-bad-sound-water-pump-area.html

 

Ah good find. Thx. I'll have to grab my long ass screwdriver and listen in again. Pretty sure I already tried once and didn't hear much anywhere I could get to with the screwdriver. And it doesn't really squeal. It does on rare occasions when first starting it but immediately goes away. Thought that was a belt. But maybe this is my problem! Not sure when I'll get to looking at it. Probly next week. But if anyone else has any more ideas please chime in. Would like to have every possibility open to me when I do go tinkering around in there.

 

Yeah it's been good. Checked it today and it was a little low but no, this wouldn't be it.
However, I've recently read something about it being bad changing to synthetic oil somewhere on here. Not sure why it would be bad. I changed to full synthetic like 2 oil changes ago as I was suggested to by my brother when I asked what was the best of the best.. However, this noise has been going on long before I did that. I'm really starting to think that it's that fan pulley bracket. I do recall it being intermittent on some occasions. While I was in line at fast food joint for a while I was listening to it and it seemed to go away for a very short time. But that was a while ago. It seems it does it non stop now. So it's gotta be that. Or some other bearing or pulley. It really does sound like a bearing chattering.

 

Well I found that fan bracket for $119. Think I'm going to tear it down next week if I can get a bolt for the idler pulley tensioner. Am I correct in assuming that after all the belts are off that fan pulley won't be turning right? So I won't have to remove he fan assembly just to see if it's that bearing? I will probly use the screwdriver method first to listen in bit like I said I'm pretty sure I tried that before and didn't hear anything.

 

Fuck. I think it is that bearing. Now it's sounding like it's trying to seize. Get a really quick scrape/screach for a split second occasionally. I need to get this fixed asap. I didn't get to it this week. I'll have to next week. I think I found out what size that idler pulley bolt is so I can grab that at ace hardware right quick and try it next week. What's the worst that could happen? Just stops turning and locks up the pulley?

 

It is turned only by the external accessory belts. Like I mentioned in the linked thread, mine "felt" smooth as silk but squealed like a stuck pig only when cold. Yours may have progressed beyond that point. Listening again/better might be the best bet and stay away from any knock offs.

Depending on a bunch of factors like speed at the time, it will range from burning up the belt to a catastrophic explosion of the bracket itself with the now untethered fan carousing around the front of the engine bay taking out the radiator, fan shroud, hoses, crank/cam position sensor harnesses and maybe denting your hood. I have seen both ends of the spectrum.

I listened to your vids and I have to say, all the bad brackets I have seen made the squeal/shriek. Not saying yours isn't bad, just give her a good listen ASAP, you will know right away.

 

Damn. That's scarry. Lol. I'll git r done next week. At least pulling the belts off and whatnot.

Another thought about this..
I wonder if that bearing is even sealed? I'll have to look when I take it apart. Wondering if maybe this is a fault on Toyota's end. Thinking there shouldn't be any water in there. But many of us wash our motors off. And also go mudding or through water that may splash up on that fan bracket. Even though it's probly not a good thing but we all do it anyways. I bet this is the reason these bearings are failing...

 

I'm sure that it is sealed, it's not something that has a grease zerk. I'm sure it has to do with over tightening the belts. When I changed the belts, I over torqued the tensioners (I've worked on way more domestics), and after firing it up the engine had a horrible knock. I drove it for ~5 miles, then took it back to the garage and loosened them up, the knocking sound cooled down but still noticeable. After a year the sound is barely there, but I know I'm gonna have to swap out the fan bracket sooner than later.
I read that on a 2.7L, belts are tensioned to 21ft lb, maybe you could start there when everything is new. If you don't have a torque wrench, I suggest getting one, as I'll be adding one to my tool chest soon. Good luck with the fix!

 

Oh didn't even think about that. And to be honest, didn't know you could torque them. lol. Shows how much I know.

 

The bearing is sealed and had plenty of lube inside. To me it just seems a tad on the small side for the load it carries. That and the combination of ball bearings (single row) taking all the thrust/side load and the roller bearing having more "cage" than rollers. IIRC there were only 6. EDIT, make that 10 rollers and 6 balls.
One more thing to check, a fellow on another forum had a pulley itself crack from rust between several of the mounting bolt holes. It made more of a rattle/clacking sound.

FWIW failure of these things on the Taco is not common, but a little more frequent than "rare".

 

I didn't know about torque settings for the belts either, and found the 2.7L specs by chance, but it is here somewhere on TW.

Other than your friends rust issue, it could be improperly installed belts that help with the failure rate. Treated right, the bearing could last longer than they do.

 

Well I gotta go down to dealer for that dang idler pulley bolt.. Sigh. Ace hardware didn't have what I need. But another thought on this too.. And yes I know I know, I just need to pull it apart and see.. But if it turns out the noise doesn't go away upon removing belts, could it possibly be the harmonic ballancer going bad? Someone told me it may be that...

 

Ok FINALLY an update. Got around to the dealer for the idler pulley tensioning bolt and took off the belst one at a time and no change even with nothing turning but the crank. So I'm hoping its either the water pump or the Harmonic Balancer. Is there any way to tell if the harmonic balancer is bad?

Edit. Oh and now i get to deal with a broken alternator adjust bar. Damn thing broke in half! Surprised it stayed together. Heard it clank on the ground as
i loosened the adjuster bolt. Sigh if its not one thing its another... And its a dealer part. Back to them yet again for another 70 mile round trip.

 

Dang dude, sorry to hear about your dilemma. I want to apologize for steering you in the wrong direction, I thought for sure that fan assembly was the problem. Please keep us updated.

 

It's all good. Not like it hurt anything. At least it allowed me to discover that alt bracket issue before it got loose and broke the belt and stranded me without no idea why. ha. I actually got it back in though!!! Couldn't believe it. I decided to try and position it in place and tighten the adjuster bolt down with pressure on it, and it stayed in place! The bottom Alternator bolt tightened down right on the spot where it cracked/broke off so I just carefully tightened it down then gave the top bolt a really good crank. Should last till I get the new one special ordered. I'm wondering if this was caused by my new h/o alternator I installed. Got a dc power engineering alt and it was a really tight fit getting it to slide over that bottom bracket that broke. It cracked and broke off right where the bottom alternator bolt was tightened down on.. Idk if the next one does it too then I'll be contacting dc power engineering. That bracket is only $12...
So anyways I guess I'll have to order up that timing belt/water pump kit and hope that it's that. If not then oh well, at least all that will be done. Only other thing I can think of is the harmonic balancer. Again about that, is there any way to tell if that's bad? Can you start the motor with it removed? I don't really know much about them. I assume it's to balance the crank or something like that? Or is it just to balance the pulley? Wondering if I can remove it too to see if the noise goes away in the meantime cuz it'll be a little while before I get to doing the internals...

 

Holy crap. Now THAT is an awesome write-up! Gonna be coming back here when I get to it. Thanks man. Yeah I hope it's that. Like I said it's been doing this for a long time. Surprised it hasn't failed me yet. Can't wait to get this done.

 

Well, an update. Seeing as I'm waiting on my bro to come tow me

It was the water pump. Just took a coolant shit all over the place driving down the highway. Started bogging down so I pulled over imediately and it was barely running. Turned her off got out and was pouring coolant out everywhere from behind the fan bracket... Sigh. Damnit. And I was gonna order up the water pump/timing belt kit today when I got home. Guess I'm down until I get it fixed That's what I get for not treating her right. Ha.

 

I bought this whole kit just waiting for it to ship.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/180729034728?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT



Anyone have any suggestions/links as to how to replace the camshaft and crankshaft seals? I'll probly look it up in the book.. But wondering how hard its gonna be. And what tools I'll need. My bro has a ton of tools so I'm sure he has something if its a special tool. Like a puller. Is that all it is? Just pulling it off and replace the seal? I read somewhere a while ago that someone said its too much of a pain to do the seals if theyre not bad. And even had them leak even after replacing anyways. But sounds like in their case they must not've done it right

Idk just want to do it all in one shot since i'll have it all tore apart anyways, and on the writeup linked out a couple posts up didn't do those.

One more question, does the water pump gasket need any sealant?
Thanks