Dsp? HU? Line output converter?!amp?!?! Wtf?!

Hey everyone, just after some opinions here… please don’t roast me if there has been a similar post and I didn’t see it on a search (I have searched!!!)

I’ve been a little irritated the past couple weeks working on bringing some bass to my 2021 trd OR non JBL stereo (6mt blessing or curse)
Either way, currently running a factory HU, line output converter(to right front channel apparently), kicker CXA400.1 amplifier with remote bass knob, a Skar audio fiberglass “jL stealth box” with a JL 10tw3-d4 wired at 2 ohms.

I’ve had sealed and ported subwoofer setups before… last truck(07 ranger ext cab) had a RF p2d2 8” in a ported box tuned to roughly 35Hz with a 1000w rockville amp @ 1ohm.

what I’m getting at is that I’ve been having the hardest time tuning my JL 10tw3 with this amp, I’ve always had aftermarket head units with sub pre-outs. I’m not trying to spend a crazy amount of money on this stereo system at the moment but looking for good sound for sure, and trying to do this in stages… I think next will be a full door speaker/tweeter swap with kicker speakers(plug and play)

my dilemma is that I have not been able to tune this in a “linear” way… some music hits hard and low, but other music I’ve used for tuning in the past almost sounds like there is no SW at all, what do you guys think would be the best route next? HU? DSP? Or a 5.1 amplifier?

I KNOW the factory HU limits bass output at higher levels but would a DSP or different amp bypass that better, or is it just the Amazon line output converter?

ALSO: had a kicker L7t sealed 8 (pre-made box by kicker) in same location behind rear passenger seat before the Skar/JL enclosure… JL sounds much cleaner and doesn’t sound like a hollow thud behind the seat at low volumes. I’m not MAD at this current setup, just disappointed at times.

thanks in advance guys.

 

Hey Ryan,
I can't say for certain what is going on with your set up. It doesnt sound like this is your first setup so i apologize if im saying things you have done or tried.

I have ran converters in past though. One thing to remember is that if you have audio tuning on your factory HU, it effects the sound coming out of your sub as well. I personally always ran my converter out of the rear speaker vs the front since I like more highs in front and lows in rear.

Another thing, make sure you tune the sub at the volume level you plan on playing at the most often. This helps optimize the tune.

Lastly, I'd personally go with 5ch amp at the same time you do door speakers. You will notice the gains more. If you plan on running factory speakers with you new sub for a while, then I'd look at aftermarket head unit with 5ch rca out for easier set up later.

Hope you figure it out soon!

Tim

 

@TimPall13 nailed it. It’s the factory “tune” of the headunit that makes sure when you turn it up, you don’t kill the factory speakers. Problem is, as you turn it up, the bass rolls off, killing your “thump”. What you want, if you want to keep the factory H/U is a DSP, which can be as much or more than a new aftermarket H/U. So you’re left to decide how married you are to the factory H/U.

Sorry about the wallet.

 

Yeah, my wallet and or wife probably aren’t happy with me after getting two different subs/enclosures, an amp, a wiring kit, and two different line output converters in the past two weeks. Lol

Correct me if I’m wrong, but if I did a separate amp (for door speakers and sub) wouldn’t I be able to somewhat bypass the factory head unit roll off to an extent?

 

Without altering the garbage signal before the amp, it’s “garbage in - garbage out.” If you want to simplify some, the Audio Control D5.1300 is a DSP/amp combo (5-channel). Takes a little pain out of that step. There are others too, from Kenwood, Kicker, JL Audio etc. They are becoming more popular, with factory units becoming more integrated. There’s also the Kicker KEY 200.4, if you can find it, that does the tuning with a mic and some test tones for you.

 

I am aware of the garbage in-garbage out. however,If I were to install an amplifier for door speakers and subwoofer and kept the head unit at lower volumes, would this still not assist the problem with the head unit roll off? As long as I did not crank the volume on the HU obviously.

also, on a separate note. I realized today that there is an EQ on the Spotify app, I did some adjustments with this EQ and the output on my Toyota system sounds a whole lot better. My work truck however (22 ford maverick) did not appreciate the addition settings to the speakers, I am willing to deal with this for better sound in the Tacoma. I will just have to not blast music in the work truck quite as loud I guess, even though it get many more hours and miles on it than my Tacoma.

 

An interesting idea, gain matching as you suggest. It might well work as hoped, my only concern would be the amp. It might not like the lower voltage input level and hiss and crackle something awful. Really only one way to find out, find the volume where the all-pass filters kick in on the H/U and do a quick-n-dirty tune. Worst case, a reset. I’m actually very interested in this. It might be another option for those wanting to keep the factory H/U.

 

Question is, how do I find this level? I do not possess the equipment necessary for finding the factory filters to kick in. I suppose I could do it all by ear… major downside “do NOT surpass 35” on factory head unit… to anyone that drives my truck. Which honestly has only been two people other than me in the past two years, minus the service techs at Toyota.

 

This is the stock headunits output at different volume levels. The stock headunit doesnt actually limit bass at higher volumes, it does seem to limit 200-400hz though

volume level 10



volume level 20



volume level 30




volume level 40

 

Interesting that the roll off is 200-400hz, maybe it just lacks the power to actually put out the lower frequencies at higher volumes?

 

stupid question, but have you played with the phasing of the sub?

if you're running the rest of the stock setup, it means you don't have a crossover on any of the door speakers. so if they're trying to emit bass, and the sub is trying to emit bass 180 degrees out of phase, the result will seem as though there's no bass.

of course, that amp doesn't have a phase option, so you'd need to wire the sub backwards to alter it's phasing.

 

Lol, not a stupid question, and yes. I did change the phase on the sub. It’s actually sounding pretty good now. It’s just been the hardest sub/amp combo I’ve had to tune, not that I’ve really had that many. 8 if I recall, with a mix of sealed and ported. This is just the first one with a factory head unit, and with all the tech in my factory HU I wasn’t really trying to replace it so I decided to work around it. Not entirely sure if it matters but my truck has the 360 cameras as well and there’s quite a few plugs in the back of the HU.

 

The biggest issue you will run into on the stock headunit is that the rear speaker outputs are very very very low. So if you try to tap into the rear speakers for your signal, your going to be disappointed.

 

My set up is on my 01 Land Cruiser, stock head unit, results will be different.

I did lots of research on line output converters and landed on the one below. My system sounds phenomenal with a single 12" woofer. I would try a different line output converter first, if it were me. For $20 worth a shot.

 

200-400hz are lower mids and the most common culprit for muddy sound in small rooms. One could argue a car is a small room.

So it would make sense that those are compensated for by the head unit for the average consumer.

In mixing/mastering its pretty typical to do cuts in that same range to clean up a crappy or sub par mix.

For the OP maybe get a subwoofer phase knob that allows for variable control 0-180 degrees, not just A/B polarity. Then properly phase align sub with a program like AudioTools. Also kill the rear speakers completely.

You would want to do all this tuning with you sitting in the drivers seat as well with engine running to factor in your mass and engine frequencies.

More sophisticated room correction includes real-time noise sampling and dynamic eq adjustments. Maybe someone is incorporating that into car audio already via an app, dont know.

 

I went thru this same thing with my 2021 stock head unit. At first I had the kicker key 200.4 running mids/highs and a 8 inch Rockford Fosgate powered sub. It never sounded crisp or that great. I researched headunits and ended up installing the Sony 9500es. It's expensive but it sounds way better. Next is upgrading to a pair of 10 inch subs. In my opinion a new headunit will get you to the finish line

 

I went with buy once cry once.

 

Bismarck, I had been waiting for your update, I believe in the “what did you do to your 3rd gen” thread… I believe you also have the Skar audio box, what driver did you install in the box and how has it been sounding?

 

I got a kicker.

$180 Kicker 48CWRT102 CompRT 10" Subwoofer, DVC, 2-ohm

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NFJK21W?ie=UTF8

It sounds pretty good. down the road, I may buy a better sub. JL, Rockford Fosgate are a couple I'm looking at.
If there's a good deal on black friday, I'll pick one up then. Till then, I'm good with this.
waiting for a mic to do the sound check. I ended up using an old laptop for the sound check, using TrueRTA for the software, https://www.trueaudio.com/rta_abt1.htm.
I got a M-Audio interface. The mic comes in on Monday, so I should be done next week heat permitting.