Didn't track order of valve lifters

I am posting this to inquire about the potential level of damage caused by randomly rearranging the valve lifters. When I took my cylinder heads apart, I didn't think the order of valve lifters was important (as they are all the same, was neglectful of "sympathetic wear" and parts over time bending shape to one another) so I didn't take note of which one went where. Subsequently, I discovered the order is in fact important.

I did keep track of all the valves and their associated hardware (spring, keepers, etc.)

Realistically, how bad will or could the consequences be of shuffling the order of valve lifters given that everything else will go back in the original order?

 

It COULD cause premature wear, but I do not think you have any choice now.

 

How many miles on the vehicle? Type of oil used it it's life? Reason the heads are pulled down? Other work being done, as a complete motor refresh, or just the top end?

 

123k

5w30

Head gasket replacement and overall rebuild

Thanks

 

My suggestion would be to measure (or have measured) cam lobes very carefully. Not just the lift duration dimensions, but across the riding surfaces There may not be any measurable wear at all. Then if the bottoms of the lifters are also to spec, it likely won't matter too much.

However, if you are doing a full refresh, you may be happier just putting in a new set of lifters and moving on.

If you have a contact at an honest and competent machine shop, especially one that specializes in heads, you might want to pose the question to them regarding what they'd recommend.

 

Since the lifters are NOT hydraulic, but solid lifters, they set the valve clearance - which is absolutely imperative to get correct if you want your engine to run well, and stay that way. I'd say take the whole works including the cams to a good head shop, and have them sort the situation out for you.

 

This is the one answer. You valve lash is going to be a crap if you just put them in mixed up. Your only option is to get the valve clearances properly set. It isn't very hard, just a huge pain in the @ss.

Oh I guess you could just throw it back together and it might run, but then again you could have a valve that doesn't seat correctly and before long it will be burned and leaking severely .... and then you will be right back where you are now.

 

Wouldn't this be much simpler than machining ?

 

I didn't suggest any machining, only measuring.

Pretty much the same as Landphil suggested right after me, in terms of letting a machinist sort it out.

 

Doesn't this engine set the lash by choosing one of about a zillion different lifter sizes? A "new set" won't solve the lash problem unless you have it done at a shop where they carry all the sizes. Otherwise you can go through a painful measurement process and order the right parts. But notice even then you will need to remember the measurements so that you put the right lifter in the right hole.

 

You are correct. Any wear to the lifters themselves would be very negligible, especially at that mileage, but matching the right ones to each valve and cam lobe is the key. You would not be able to purchase a "set" of lifters, only specified quantities of varying lifters.

 

Clearly too late, but here is how I kept track of everything. Each lifter has a number on the bottom, corresponding to the thickness.

 

I appreciate the clarification and apologize for adding to any confusion. I assumed some things I should not have.

I've never come across different sized lifters as the 'adjustment' method. I'm used to shim-in-bucket adjustments when working with solids.

This leads to another question for me though. What is the prescribed valve adjustment method on a still assembled and functional engine? Is there a scheduled PM for these adjustments as I've seen in other vehicles?

 

The FSM calls for using a feeler gauge to determine clearance, and replacing the lifters with the correct size if the clearance is off.

10. INSPECT VALVE CLEARANCE
(a) Check the valves indicated in the illustration.
(1) Using a feeler gauge, measure the clearance between
the valve lifter and camshaft.
Valve clearance (Cold):
Intake 0.15 - 0.25 mm (0.006 - 0.010 in.)
Exhaust 0.29 - 0.39 mm (0.011 - 0.015 in.)
(2) Record the out-of-specification valve clearance
measurements. They will be used later to determine
the required replacement valve lifter.
(b) Turn the crankshaft 2/3 of a revolution (240), and check
the valves indicated in the illustration.
(1) Using a feeler gauge, measure the clearance between
the valve lifter and camshaft.
Valve clearance (Cold):
Intake 0.15 - 0.25 mm (0.006 - 0.010 in.)
Exhaust 0.29 - 0.39 mm (0.011 - 0.015 in.)
(2) Record the out-of-specification valve clearance
measurements. They will be used later to determine
the required replacement valve lifter.

(j) Determine the replacement valve lifter size according to
these Formula or Charts:
(1) Using a micrometer, measure the thickness of the
removed lifter.
(2) Calculate the thickness of a new lifter so that the
valve clearance comes within the specified value.
T: Thickness of removed lifter
A: Measured valve clearance
N: Thickness of new lifter
Intake:
N = T + (A - 0.20 mm (0.008 in.))
Exhaust:
N = T + (A - 0.30 mm (0.012 in.))
(3) Select a new lifter with a thickness as close as possible
to the calculated value.
HINT:
Lifters are available in 35 sizes in increments of 0.020 mm
(0.0008 in.), from 5.060 mm (0.1992 in.) to 5.740 mm (0.2260
in.).

 

Thanks. I get it.

For the OPs case, it seems like the idea of having the machine shop reassemble and sort everything out with careful measuring is about the only alternative short of buying fully assembled rebuilt heads. Or is there a better approach?

 

You could use the above approach to figure out what goes where, he has all of the correct lifters, just time consuming, and I suspect a shop will do the same thing.

 

If you're looking to do it yourself, you'll need to reinstall everything and take measurements of each one and compare it to factory specifications. If it's within spec, you'll be fine. If not, it'll be "musical lifter" until each one is in it's happy place. This can be incredibly time consuming and frustrating.

 

Subed for outcome... This is going to be a painful experience.

 

how can i use the numbers that are written inside each lifter ? I think they are divided among 39, 40, and 41

 

The numbers are imprinted on the lifter to help with getting the correct valve lash. They don't mean anything until they're installed and you get a measurement with a feeler gauge. Once you get the readings, you can use the chart to help determine what lifter to use.