Dealership forgot to put in oil at 6000km

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DVAsmrwdtQ

 

Popping of the oil pan and valve covers is a joke. Your going to see shiny metal that should be shiny. What about the cam surfaces? What about the crank bearings? These are the bearings that go first and fastest and unless you check them for scoring and use a feeler gauge to measure the wear then they are just giving you a hand job. My Harley went down a couple years ago from a crank bearing not getting enough oil. It was a fluke type of thing where an crud ball plugged an oil passage and starved the crank bearings. The rest of the motor looked amazing... the bearing surfaces were fubared.

They think they are going to let you look and see no damage... then send you on your way driving a time bomb. I'd hold the line and get that new motor.

 

It's the dealership offering this it's not over yet I'm still going to call back tomorrow and go from there.

 

Like said above if they are going to pull the oil pan and the valve covers there wasteing your time. Your main bearings would probably be the first to go and thats on the crank not under your valve covers. Even if your cam lobes and shims or buckets look fine, it doesnt mean everything else is okay. Maybe try the extended engine warrenty?

 

If it does not change see a attorney. First visit is free. Don't you dare back down on this. We are all rooting for you. Unless you do plastic gauge tests you are not going to find anything. You might see a film of metal in the oil filter or oil pan but you will never be able to tell where it came from and how bad it got. BET it goes threw oil now. Think about your exhaust sensors. This engine is going to burn oil. You have a smoker now and it's just a matter of time before it starts showing up. Remember you are in the land of winter.

Next time they will be much more careful to not make this Noob mistake. It's no big deal for them cause they have insurance. There fucking you around. It only took me a single phone call to convince them to change my engine out when it happen to me. Not oil but similar and I had no warrenty cause it had already expired a long time before. ( not Toyota ).

 

I'm not getting sucked into this one this time. It ends up being more of a big deal that we would bash dealerships and Toyota for being the incompetent moron thief scam artist idiots they are than the focus being on a negligent action at the consumer's expense with time wasted battling someone who has insurance to cover their mistakes but won't fucking do what is right and use it instead of trying to lame out like they did nothing wrong and you have no right to demand they do anything. Good luck with it tho, get all you can out of it.

 

Get an attorney...you really want to be driving/paying for a car that you don't feel like it's reliable anymore.

 

X1000 Exactly ^

 

That brought up a thought.

From the dealerships' point of view they're acting like all is fine but who wants to bet that if this had been caused by the owner the dealer would null his warranty instantly.

Well put too, the dealer would probably want to rebuild the motor if it was his fault, but they're trying to back peddle out of this.

Most realistically I'd be after a lifetime engine warranty for as long as I owned it. Although a warranty isn't going to help anything if one day the engine dies when you're in the middle of nowhere... The whole reason we buy Toyotas is for their reliability, an issue like this is definatley taking that peice of mind you used to have an leaving you a truck just like any other (leaving you with the constant feeling of when's it going to break down.....?).

 

Why would it not run? The only switch I can find on the prints is the oil pressure switch. All that seems to do is light that dash light. I can't find a flow switch on the prints. There is only a oil pressure sensor switch that I can find. Didn't seem to stop the engine on his truck.

 

I believe that's a way overblown concern. Even if it really did operate with no oil (which I seriously doubt based on Oswego's opinion) and assuming he's been driving it, if it's going to seize it would have by now. There will be all the usual warning signs of impending disaster well before it happens: rod knock, (truely) high oil consumption, valve train noise.

Go for a written guarantee the Toyota warranty isn't compromised and a lifetime (or some mileage limit that makes the owner happy) engine internals warranty after it expires. If the dealer has any qualms doing that after opening the engine up then OP should have something to worry about too.

I'd also push for free oil changes or Toyota oil and filters for life, because of all the hassle if nothing else.

 

This is kinda OT...but related so I hope OP doesn't object...

I highly doubt the decision to shut down is handled by switch logic as it alone wouldn't be smart enough to be relied on. Does the oil pressure provide an input to the computer? If so, I imagine the logic in the computer would allow a few seconds of engine operation before shutting down injectors or something similar. That would be to allow oil pressure to come up; the exact time would probably vary depending on temperature, RPM and/or other variables.

But then, when the lamp lights it generally means 'low oil' and I've wondered how that works: is it a simple level sensor? or some kind of logic in the computer that looks at oil pressure variations to infer the pickup is sucking air?

 

Yes that is where it is wired into but if you look at the symptoms of that light being on the main culprit is that switch. Never in the books did it say the engine will not run if that switch is dead. It's mounted on the left side of the oil cooler. Or around there somewhere.

 

that oil pressure switch is very simple design, it only shows if pressure falls below 4 PSI. Thats not enough on revving engine. If you are 2000 rpms and you have only 4 PSI pressure engine will die.
Would be nice if Toyota had put oil pressure gauge like Tundra has. Which reminds me that is one mod I would like to get done soon. I have oil pressure gauge on my other truck and its valuable to get the feel for how engine is running, quality of oil etc etc

 

Yes an engine will run without oil. Also when you drain an engine for an oil change you are not draining every last drop of oil out of the engine. It's far from dry. As can be seen from the photo I posted running for an extended period of time with zero oil pressure will cause engine damage. But that engine ran for 10 minutes at a fairly high 2500 RPM (relative being a 2F with a 4k RPM redline) and locked up solid. The only thing harmed after a full teardown and inspection of all surfaces was the main bearings. If the oil pressure light didn't illuminate immediately when he started the truck there was probably still a quart or so in it. The oil pump picks up in the pan, and the oil pressure switch is not in the pan. It's got to travel a ways. 2 kilometers is not very far.

Yes if I were the OP I would be pissed beyond belief. But I've never had anyone change my oil so I wouldn't be in this situation. Yes the dealer should do a thorough inspection of the engine. Pulling the pan is going to be needed and they should pull a few bearing caps. They should also pull a few cam caps and have a look. I've never had a valve cover off one of these engines but it must have caps for the cams. It's probably like other overhead cam engines though in that there are no actual cam bearings. I would also want them to do a leakdown test and compare it to another new truck on the lot. I would also want an oil pressure test both at idle and under load comparing it to another new truck. If everything matches up I would not worry about it one bit. But I would still be pissed. But then again I wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.

 

No it won't. they need to pull the motor, tear it completely down, and micrometer everything to see if it is well within spec and no hidden scoring on delicate pieces. Just pulling the bottom pan and valve covers doesn't tell you shit. They probably won't do this unfortunately, but it's what should be done.

Tell them to offer you a zero hour factory crated motor, and you will take it.

 

Balien

Check these guys out, they might be of some help

http://www.camvap.ca/eng/vinsearch.html

 

so whats the update?

 

I cant understand why anyone with a 2005+ tacoma would not change their own oil, so damn easy. It would take me way longer to drive, wait, pay, leave than it would to just do it myself at home and know its done correcty.
I feel that you got what was coming to you by having someone who doesnt give a shit about your truck change the oil, and then paying them for it. I mean shit, my girlfriend who teaches high school changes the oil on her subie forester by herself, and that things a bitch to do. Time to turn in my man card once I take this truck in to have the f'n oil changed.....IMO.

 

Chill out, a few years ago when i had a 1991 xtra cab it was actually cheaper to bring it to the stealership and have them change the oil, as opposed to buying the oil and filter, and i could drink beer while they were doing it