Big 3, 4, or 5 wiring upgrade? In need of clarity.

So I'd like to make sure I have a solid understanding of what the big 3, 4, or 5 ought to entail..

After reading a g'zillion forums, watching a g'zillion youtube vids, and looking at 10 g'zillion diagrams, I am still somewhat unsettled on what exactly it takes to properly upgrade each wire that is part of the charging circuit.

This is what I'm thinking at this point, please let me know if I'm missing something, or if incorrect about an item:

1) Pos. from ALT to BATT (fuse this or no?)

2) ground from BATT to chasis

3) ground from BATT to Eng. block

4) ground from Eng. block to chasis

5) (just heard this one today from an auto electric engineer, he said it's often overlooked)...
Ground from back/rear casing of the alternator to the - Batt.
Does anyone else think that would make for too long of a ground cable at 20ish inches?

Only slightly off topic:

I heard recently that you should not ground accessories that draw over 50A to the chasis. First time hearing that. I've always thought that people ground their high power amplifiers with a short ground to a chasis or unibody... If so, what do you ground said accessory to instead?

Gratitude to the kind soul that can craft a reply in 1,2,3,4,5 format.. would really help with comprehending and retaining the info. Pretty severe ADD over here.. Thanks.

 

First it is your vehicle do things how you want

Do you have any idea of the size wire you will be using ??I use 1/0 welding cable for all but the Alternator that is 4 gauge I might be wrong

Are you also up grading battery terminals?

#1 do you plan to eliminate the wire going from the battery via 120 amp fuse to the fuse block to the B terminal of the Alternator or run it in parallel??

No plan to run a positive cable to the starter ??

#2&3 Are these the same size cable .

I have never used the #4 instead I run a Ground to the frame to give me a good frame ground on the rear of the vehicle

If you don`t have a good ground via the Alternator #5 mount another to the battery can`t hurt in problem vehicles I have run a battery ground to the starter bolt and the ECM ground

On your grounding 50 amp circuits as long as all the return paths to the battery via the body will handle the 50 Amp current

 

the quality of the cable is just as if not more important than the size of the cable. The more strands the better. Then there are the connectors, crimp, crimp and solder or solder alone... that is a never ending debate.

as to the grounding of loads 50 amps or greater to the chassis I will agree with that for the following reason. If the chassis ground(s) start to deteriorate the electricity WILL find a way back to the battery and usually not on the path you want... throttle cable, trans cable, other devices that are connected. On the other end of the electrical spectrum poor grounds and poor batteries cause wierd issues with the various computer modules/PCM where we are dealing with milli amps. Thinking about it a bit more and feeling like I need to "share", the cooling system generates a low voltage too and if the block has poor grounds the electrolosis will eat the softest metal first, i.e., the aluminum bits of the motor.

 

Thanks for the replies.

Wyoming 09,

"Do you have any idea of the size wire you will be using ??I use 1/0 welding cable for all but the Alternator that is 4 gauge I might be wrong"

I am planning on running 1/0 for all the grounds, and the + from the Alt to the Batt. The new alternator is 160A.

"Are you also upgrading the battery terminals?"

I will. After I get the new Battery. In the meantime I polished every square mm of the stock terminals (steel buffing sponge on Dremel), including the Batt posts, and applied a healthy amount of dielectric grease. Infact I polished every ring terminal in the system and all attachment points for the ground, power etc.. this includes polishing the hot post of the alternator.

"#1 do you plan to eliminate the wire going from the battery via 120 amp fuse to the fuse block to the B terminal of the Alternator or run it in parallel??"

Leaving all stock power and grounds intact.. just adding new, heavier wire to the existing system.
To fuse or not to fuse the new wire from +Alt to the +Batt is the Q.
I think I will, despite many shops saying it is unnecessary, because the rationale in my mind says that if the Alt throws out a super high current, because of malfunction/short or whatever, then I want to stop it before it reaches the next component in the circuit (the Batt). Correct me if I'm wrong.
Note: The stock + from the Alt to Batt does not appear fused. Why? I don't know, but would like to understand. 3rzFE...

"No plan to run a positive cable to the starter ??"

Someone told me that isn't necessary as it isn't part of the charging circuit..? Isn't it just considered an accessory that already has the Guage wire necessary for the amperage it draws upon start up? So no, not planning on it unless someone can illustrate why it might be beneficial, or necessary.

"#2&3Are these the same size cable ."

Yep. As mentioned above, using the same guage for the whole system, be it - or +.

"I have never used the #4 instead I run a Ground to the frame to give me a good frame ground on the rear of the vehicle"

I have a stock ground from the block to the firewall. So it only made sense to me, to replace (actually add to) this with the new heavier Guage.

"If you don`t have a good ground via the Alternator #5 mount another to the battery can`t hurt in problem vehicles I have run a battery ground to the starter bolt and the ECM ground"

Alternator case to Neg Batt.. Cant hurt right? But is it necessary for optimal performance? This is what I understand about the stock circuit:
A) alternator bracket is connected to the Block, and the block is grounded to the firewall.
B) Batt Neg is connected to the block.
So it seems these items are connected via the engine block... does the additional path of a new ground directly from Alt to Batt create less resistance or something? Noob, obviously.

"On your grounding 50 amp circuits as long as all the return paths to the battery via the body will handle the 50 Ampcurrent"

ehh.. still confused. "As long as the return paths via the body will handle the 50A current..." Will they? And what about the "dont ground Accessories *over 50A to the chasis."?

As far as my amplifier goes, this ground is mounted to the floor of the cab under the seat belt bolt/bracket. Paint is removed and polished the metal with the wire wheel.
So my amplifier is drawing around 62 amps when cranking hard, using the formula 900rmsW ÷ 14.3V = 62A. Im sure its much less most of the time, but I want to design the wiring/ground system based on the upper end of things. Is my floorboard/body ground sufficient for the amplifier? like I asked, Doesn't almost everyone do this? A lot of unibody vehicles out there with 2000W amps that are grounded to the body because there is no other choice.. Are these people actually having a problem that theyre unaware of? Wouldnt that rule of "nothing over 50A to the body" pretty much eliminate putting any high putting high power accessories into a unibody vehicle?
_______________________________________________

Glamisman,

"the quality of the cable is just as if not more important than the size of the cable."

Yep im on board with that. Going for good O2 free/high strand count cable.

Im just really having a difficult time wrapping my head around the less than or more than 50A thing, and where said item is grounded, and the deteriorating effects of certain configurations etc.. its like word spaghetti when I read about this.

 

Toyota has changed how it installs battery cableing over the years of the 1st gen. In some cases the actual clamp that goes onto the battery is a seperatly replaceable piece and you can attach a second cable with an eyelet there. On other years the are all one piece. You can buy aftermarket cable ends with a longer clamping bolt and you can add wires directly to the battery clamp there.

 

Did you end up putting a breaker fuse between alternator + and batt +?

 

That would all depend just how you ran the wire.

If you eliminate the Alt Fuse it is good to have protection between the alternator and battery .

Then there is none between a Battery and Starter .

It comes down to what you decide to do

 

Lots of decisions.

 

I don't chassis ground anything I can avoid chassis grounding.

90% of electrical issues I repair on old vehicles and trailers are grounding issues. You can't make a good, reliable connection to a frame known for rusting out.

 

That’s a good point.

 

thats what I use these for. additional battery negative and positive and hook everything up to these.

 

i just do it out of habit from all the trailer plugs I installed.

I have had no problem with the frame ground myself YET!!!

 

Where can I get some of those?

 

$91 Blue Sea Systems 2104 PowerBar BusBar with Four 3/8, 600A

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XBB758/?coliid=I31YM1ACY1ICM1&colid=3FSZK5V4BLLNA&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

https://www.ebay.com/itm/250A-7-poi...itive-distribution-block-bus-bar/152113320053

 

Right on just ordered a couple yesterday.