Automatic transmission fluid leak / replacement question

this is a 2013 4L v6 taco with 5sp auto transmission



SO...... yesterdat i drove my truck about 5 miles to a friend's house - everything seemed fine. A few hours later I left, and problems ensued. It took a moment to engage reverse when shifted. Ok, we had some unusually low temperatures (about 0 F) so I figured somethings just froze up. I went down a short hill after backing out of driveway, it seemed to be shifting fine. Then I hit the uphill side and all heck broke loose. High rpms's but super low speed, not really shifting or seeming to get power to wheels. Ok, I pull over to check trans fluid, then remember some idiot didn't think we needed dipsticks anymore. Ok, that's out. Well, I thought, maybe it is just the extra cold temperatures. So I put it back in gear and pull out onto road. Much better, shifting and getting power to wheels. About 2 miles later, it drops down to much lower gear and revs way up. Back over to side of road... Check underneath for leaks with flashlight, don't really see anything. I limped the rest of the way home at about 10mph. Didn't seem like it would shift past second.

SO today I go outside to check it out. Start it up, won't engage any gear. So I let it warm up for a good 1/2 hour or so - still not engaging any gear.

BUT now i have a huge mess underneath. tranny fluid everywhere. What a mess! Can definitely see it dripping down everywhere from the front skid guard. I'm guessing more than likely one of the lines to to the cooler went bad. I'm stuck working on it in a gravel driveway outside. We're supposed to get 18 inches of snow tonight so it may be a few days before I get to look at it.

The question is: How likely is it that I did some severe damage?

I obviously had enough fluid to limp it home - and since it came spewing out when i warmed it up i would think there was enough fluid to get it home safely. After spewing out today it probably lost too much to engage. I'm hoping no severe damage!!!

This no dipstick crap is for the birds. At least with one you can check levels and easily add in more in case of sudden leaks.

Which begs the question, how much fluid will i need to add back. I'm thinking the torque converter must hold quite a bit, maybe the pan holds a bit too...I believe it takes around 14.5 qts of fluid from dry. So ballpark maybe 8 -10 qts? That stuff is expensive.

And then the steps you have to jump through just to properly check the level...Toyota engineers must live in perfect worlds where one only breaks down when near a dealership... or in their driveways.

I'm thinking I've probably had a slow leak for a while that just gave out completely. Although I have never noticed any stains under it, but hard to tell with gravel driveway. However, my mileage has been dropping the last two tanks or so...

I used to check all fluid levels at least once a month with all my cars. I didn't like the idea of no dipstick when I bought this truck (about 6 months ago) but I realize most newer cars seem to be going this way. Yes, I consider 2013 to be a newer car. This is my first newer vehicle. It used to routine to check oil, trans fluid, tire pressure, washer fluid, coolant level. I remember changing plugs, wires, checking timing at every fall just before winter. All routine maintenance. Have the majority of drivers really gotten so lazy nowadays that manufacturers dont even include dipsticks anymore? No one does maintenance anymore? Modern cars are easy. Am I just that much of a dinosaur???


Anyways, please TOYOTA bring back the DIPSTICKS!!!

 

To check fluid, I do believe that you get it up to operating temperature 185
Crawl under you will see the screw plug to check level
If you dropped your trans pan you should only have to replace about 2.7-3.0 quarts of fluid

 

If others think otherwise then definitely correct me here but I don’t think you did much or any damage to your truck. Although this may be an appropriate time to go ahead and do a complete gravity flush, replacing all trans fluids, filter and gasket while you’re at it. There are a few complete write ups on here, it’s not hard to do. I know it sucks ass with the weather the way it is. You’ll be able to check and clean the magnets in the trans pan too while you’re at it. As far as measuring how much fluid you’ve lost/have left, someone should be able to advise you on this. Sorry for your troubles.

 

Not exactly, the Trans Fluid needs to be be between 115- 130° F.
That is why is such a pain to check it properly. With 18” of snow on the ground and cold temperatures, it’s not going to be a fun or fast process.

OP, if I were in your situation, I’d repair the line(s).
Add fluid until it spills out the over flow. Start truck, cycle through the gears, turn truck off.
Add fluid and repeat. Once you get to a point where the you can’t add much fluid, follow the “proper procedure in the link below?

Unless @gearcruncher knows a better way to do it, when you have no idea how much is currently in the truck?

Here is a link to the procedure -
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/how-to-drain-refill-automatic-transmission.63851/

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/atf-temperature-for-level-check.464653/#post-13867056

 

Had similar issue with my 2008. Trans cooler lines deteriorated. Lost a lot of fluid before it showed same symptoms. Like you, I have a gravel driveway and had no idea trans fluid was low / leaking. Took it to a shop. They replaced the lines, filter and put new synthetic fluid. I lucked out. Transmission is fine. The shop owner told me they rarely get Tacoma’s that trans is bad.

 

I'm with you on no dipsticks on anything anymore, it makes everything a PITA to check and fill especially considering many manufacturers want it checked at operating temp (180-210°) so you can have scalding hot fluid running down your arm or a hot catyletic converter nearby while you trying to get the plug out and back in.
At least Toyota has you check it at a lower temperature so it not as easy to get burned while doing it.
Even some 3/4 and 1 ton trucks (Ford I'm looking at you) have no dipsticks anymore.

 

I would do a full flush. If you have a trans cooler use those lines. Get a graduated bucket and pump back in what you pump out and then add more to reach the correct amount. Add a quart extra and then do the procedure to get it into check mode.

 

Kind of too late for that.
The truck chose to pump the fluid out on its own, while going down the road.
OP is going to have to do a little more work.

Your suggestion is valid though, if you start with a transmission that is full of fluid.

 

Have u confirmed it is a line issue
Could be front pump spewing fluid
I’m betting that very little damage if any
Good time to drop pan and replace filter You’ll know about any damage once u drop the pan

 

I haven't checked anything. So far we've had about 14 inches of snow but at least it's warmer. 20 F or so. My fingers no longer work at that temp, especially if working on cold metal. I can't wear gloves and work with bolts or tools. As mentioned, I only have a gravel driveway and must work outside. I have a friends garage I could use, but I can't get my truck there (about 45 miles away). I figure tomorrow I will shovel it out and take a look.

But, most importantly, there hopefully shouldn't have been any major damage done.

So far the plan is:

Find the actual leak and fix. (hopefully one of the lines)
Drop pan, replace filter, clean magnets. Hope for no signs of major damage.
I figured I'd follow the steps for a full flush - adding in fluid through return line at cooler - anything to to not have to constantly crawl around in gravel and snow........

I'm figuring about 16-18 qts of fluid should do the trick. This should allow for some spillage and loss... Does this sound about right?

I was planning on a full flush this coming spring anyways - truck has about 94000 on it now. 83k when I bought it last summer.

I hate this site! Too much fun information. I came here looking for the procedure to do a full flush and the procedure for checking trans fluid levels....... Now, I HAVE to also do the cowl air intake mod, remove the fender flares and fill in holes mod..... I never liked the look of those. I have to make custom bed stiffners to go along with my custom rack... I need to stop browsing!!! j/k I love this site!

Oh well. I never liked stock vehicles anyways.

Edit:
Should I replace the trans filter before or after adding in new fluid. I'm kind of worried about sludge and crap - I'm sort of thinking that by adding in fluid first and then dropping the pan last would allow for that crap to settle in the old filter first, then it would be replaced by the new filter and then a top up of fluid... I know I'll use more fluid this way, but if it keeps the system cleaner it's worth it.

Does this line of reasoning make any sense??

 

Good luck OP...

 

That’s a tough one, you’ll be using another 3.5 quarts or so when doing the pan.
But…….if you add all 13ish quarts before, you’re mixing all that crap together.
FWIW, I don’t think the filter actually filters very fine particles. It looks like it a fairly large diameter screen from the pictures I’ve seen?

I’d say what damage, if any, is already been done.


Maybe gets @gearcruncher opinion.

 

Where did I read how much mileage you have since your last transmission service ?
Considering its a 13 ,This may play an important role on how you proceed .

Best recommendation as mentioned above .
Find the leak , repair the leak and fill the transmission to full , then test drive to verify proper operation .
Drive the truck for a week or 2 once the leak is repaired . If all goes well , consider a transmission service by dropping the transmission pan and performing a contamination inspection . Do not flush

 

hmmn.... as far as i know - no trans service ever.

I really have no idea what happened before i got the truck.

Since i got the truck - nothing! When i first looked at it last summer i was worried about not being able to check the transmission fluid since no dipstick. However, i did have the level checked after buying it. Supposedly at that time it was good - proper level, and the fluid itself looked good, at least according to the shop that did the work.I never had any problems over the last 6 months or so. So, nothing has been done. Right now, about 94K on the odometer.

I had been planning on changing the fluid this coming spring... But, apparently my truck had other thoughts on this...

I was going to use this method: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/diy-full-flush-for-automatic-transmission.68462/ DIY:Full Flush for Automatic Transmission https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/diy-full-flush-for-automatic-transmission.68462/

I figured since most of the fluid leaked out now that I would just do a flush now. I don't want to buy fluid twice...

It won't even engage a gear, so i figure most of the fluid is probably gone now.... SO i figured just do this flush thing now when i replace the leaked out fluid...


I thought that modern transmissions weren't affected like this - i know the older ones were.... Those detergents could cause problems with older ones.....

At this point, so much new fluid (with the new additives/detergents) is going in would it really make a difference in in flushing it with above method ????

I was planning on dropping the pan and replacing the filter at this time also......

Edit:
The leaked out fluid didn't smell or look burnt. It was still a nice shade of red...

 

I’d take this guys advice.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/transmission-drain-and-fill-vs-flush.566992/page-4#post-22635843

That would be a good idea. See link above

 

This is the way the transmission should be serviced
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...e-2nd-gen-transmission-pan-and-filter.726329/

You can still change all the fluid this way . Most important thing to remember is the junk on the bottom of the pan accidently going through your valve body .

 

I had this issue last year but luckily my leak was slow. But still it got down to where the trans started slipping and banging. I drove it like that for awhile before I found the leak. Then I crawled under and added a quart and drove it for another week or so.

To fix it I did it in a way that might be different from some. I had originally planned to drop the pan and change the filter while I was at this but the pan bolts are in bad shape from rust and would probably round off. I didn't have new bolts on hand at the time. So I changed out the leaking lines, which was a bit of a PITA, then left the return line loose at one of the rubber hose connections, topped the fluid up and ran the motor to flush it through catching the fluid in a big container. I did that a couple of times then connected the return line and topped the fluid up with the regular procedure using my Scangage to indicate the trans temp. 10,000 miles later the trans is still working perfectly. I did get a new set of pan bolts and will tackle that filter maybe the next time I want to change the fluid. But that might be a long time... or never since all the original fluid that came out of my tranny was pretty much pristine.

My kingdom for a dipstick with a fill tube.

 

as i started shoveling my truck out this morning i couldn't stop thinking about this no dipstick crap.......

I DO NOT LIKE IT!!!!

I"ve had 4 or 5 vehicles that blew lines/developed leaks while out in the middle of nowhere. I do a lot of seasonal roads in the winter. I'm into winter camping and snowshoing. In the summer i'm on a lot of logging roads. Most tow companies will NOT tow you if you are on these roads, especially in winter.... (at least where I live) Not too mention, most areas I frequent have little to no cell phone coverage....

I always carried xtra fluids around so in the past when this happened I have always been able to EASILY add in trans fluid just to be able to drive home to fix the leak... The same with coolant and engine oil..... and extra clothing, etc. etc... I learned the hard way (many many years ago) that if you frequent these types of roads that you are on your own. You bring the extra stuff all the time... Especially warmer clothing in the winter...

This no dipstick crap may make sense to the bean counters at toyota (and other manufacturers) but they need to realize that crap happens in the real world.....

Even brand new vehicles can have lines blow out/start leaking for whatever reason...

I can't help thinking - I'm going to be miles from a main plowed road and have this problem again....... The idea of crawling under a truck in mud and snow just to be able add in trans fluid... pulling skidplates..... just to be able to limp home to fix leak, or to be able to limp out to a plowed road for a tow..... This is ridiculous!!!!

The more I think about this, the more I don't like it!!!!!!!!

Car manufacturers better start realizing that not everyone is always on pavement and/or near civilization....... There are those of us who still use trucks as trucks!!!

Maybe toyota's method is more accurate, but what does that matter when you are stuck in the middle of nowhere! At least with a dipstick you can ballpark the amount and more easily see the condition of trans fluid, especially when looking to purchase a vehicle....

We need the ability to add in fluids when the inevitable break down occurs.... IF only to be able to get your vehicle to where it can be towed WITHOUT having to replace the transmission just because of a line break..... because you would have no choice BUT to attempt driving it out...

I was lucky this time - it's in my driveway at least.... But.... next time - will I have to leave my truck in the middle of nowhere, hike out miles just to get cell coverage..... If this had happened to me while out snowshoing or camping, my truck would probably have to sit there until spring since tow companies around here balk at seasonal/logging roads in the winter.... How does this improve customer satisfaction???

I guess I'm just getting old and cranky.... but it seems like the trend with all products nowadays is to make them cheaper and not last.. I'd rather pay a touch more initially for quality and longevity, than waste money continually buying replacements... This modern world - everything is geared for the masses of unthinking people who like their cheap foreign knock offs....

I do not see myself ever getting another tacoma (or any other newer vehicle) just because of this no dipstick crap....

I will just have to stick with older cars, at least you don't need special computer readers just to diagnose them... AND can usually get them working enough to limp home to fix..........

Now I'm hearing that some newer cars don't even have oil dipsticks anymore.... What a crock of crap this is !!!!

EDIT:
I had previous tacoma (don't remember what year , late 90's to early 2000's). It was a 4cyl manual 4x4 basic work truck - no power anything. I loved this truck! Unfortunately it only lasted a year.

It was parked at a boat ramp at the allegheny reservoir in pa for a couple days in dec while I was out canoe camping. When I went to leave I found that animals (porcupines) had chewed the living crap out of it... They chewed the rear brake lines at the rear axle, chewed some wiring back there, chewed wiring in front engine compartment, and a lot of other things - coolant lines... Too make a long story short, since I had brake fluid and coolant with me I was able to keep adding it in and was able to get that truck back home...

The insurance company would not approve new wiring harnesses... The shop that fixed it had to put in over 400 splices and basically rebuild a lot of chewed up plugs/connnectors... along with the rear brake lines. Animal damage was covered under comprehensive.

I sold it immediately after that - before the inevitable electric problems began. I don't care how good a shop is, with that many splices something was bound to short out, especially with western new york winters and the HEAVY SALT use on the roads here......

My other pet peeve, using food based products in wiring insulation and/or seat cushions.......... Don't get me started on this one!!!!

 

Remember, having a dipstick (or not) doesn't help you in the event of a catastrophic leak. All having a dipstick will do is tell you you're screwed with less effort. As for having a few quarts of ATF to pour in, unless you're a block from you destination, all of that is going to get pumped out in pretty short order too.

 

We know that. But it DOES help in many of the scenarios we are seeing where corrosion attacks the cooling lines to create a less than catastrophic leak. Of course, it only affects us guys who love our trucks so much we keep them long enough for this to happen. For the typical driver who trades every few years it matters not at all.