Are these alignment numbers ok?

i just recently got an alignment done can someone tell me if these numbers are ok or will I have tire wear problems. my truck has a billstein 5100 2.5 in. lift , with spc adjustable upper control arms installed. tires are 275 -70-16

 

Looks pretty decent!

The one camber that is a little out of spec may cause some excess tire wear. One thing to remember with alignments the factory gives those ranges because of the tolerances given for all the different components to be in a spec(i.e. squareness of the frame, locations of control arm mounts, etc.). An ideal alignment would be one where all the specs are dead center of what the manufacturer says for optimizing how they designed the suspension to be used and tire wear. This is your static alignment your suspension is dynamic so as the suspension moves so do those readings if it is set to the center then you run less of a chance of tire wear. Also those specs are there because of the way the manufacturer set the suspension up so to optimize what they believe the vehicle to be used for and tire wear for that specific vehicles intended purpose. Lots of maths in this. The way they have camber set up will help correct drift due to road crown, IMO it may be a little much though. You adjust for road crown through caster and camber. Toe I like to see a little pos. which helps during braking as it tends to toe in some. I like where they have toe set but I like to see zero total or cross toe so equally neg or pos from side to side allows for a balanced braking, turn in, and acceleration. Oh and toe is never a degree like is printed on the sheet alignment machine companies do that because it is easier for customers to understand, toe is measured either in inches or mm.

 

Thanks guys for the input.. Yeah the right camber is what's got me worried about tire wear. One is -.3 the other is +.3 I don't know how big of a deal that is but when you pay 85 bucks and they really didn't change shit from the initial to the final kind of pissed me off

 

That's very typical. Most vehicles when I did alignments would only get minor adj. to the toe. And yes they are not cheap for what is involved. Just to put it in perspective why they are so expensive, the last shop I worked at then had the top of the line hunter lift and machine which total cost was close to 50g, plus avg flat rate for a mechanic to do an alignment is 1hr which on avg usually was abt a third of the cost of the alignment. I had firestone do my alignment after my lift and they have a forever alignment for 179 or something like that. They were running a special when I went for like 149. Actually having experience I told the guy where I want my specs at and he set them. Now whenever I go offroad or feel that it needs some adj I get it re adjusted for free.

 

Damn that's what I should have done

 

go back and get both cambers around the -0.3 mark.... positive camber like that not only will look a lil odd but will cause outside tire wear.

 

@nd4spdbh -I was trying to find a post I saved from you awhile ago on alignment specs and cant. whats your ideal specs? Im going to the local alignment guru tomorrow and need some numbers to tell him.

Thanks in advance

 

-0.3 is beyond the factory spec and will cause inside tire wear it is best to be within spec. which is -0.1 to 1.4 I would have them set it to 0.0 if possible without jerking your caster around too much. Then that would be optimum for tire wear, road crown, and handling manners. Just the right needs to be adjusted. If they cannot then they should re adjust the whole thing and bring caster down some and get camber better. But it is up to you. That much out of spec for camber will cause tire wear issues to what extent there are sooo many factors that tie into that.

Toe = greatest tire wearing
Camber = causes tire wear but not as great as toe
caster = does not cause tire wear

 

There isn't a one size fits all for one make and model of vehicle too many variables. But for the tacomas I would say mid 2degrees for caster, pos .5 for camber and then .05" for toe. Now cross camber and caster has to be to the left so that it doesn't have a drift to the rt due to road crown.

 

Is it pulling or drifting o the side with the more + caster?

 

His caster is essentially even so it wouldn't cause a pull or drift.

 

A little negative camber -0.2 to -0.3 will make the tire wear evenly. When you turn the outside tire (which has the most force on it) tread patch rolls under the tire. Having the negative camber will make it to where the outside edge doesnt wear faster than the inside due to the rolling under effect. Too much negative camber will make the inside wear quick... but a 0 camber will make the outside of the tire wear quicker than slightly negative.

It really depends on lift and tire size. But with my 2in lift, and 265/75R16's i have come to an ideal around 2-2.2* of caster (i used to say around 3 - 3.2* of caster but that made steering a bit heavier than desired). Then a smidge of toe in ( 0.1* in per side) and a smidge of negative camber for reasons described above.

I havnt noticed any reduction in driveability by dropping to 2* of caster, but any lower than that (i was ~ 1.2-1.5* before UCA's a while ago) made for a wandering truck.... above the 2-2.2* of caster just made steering heavier.

Whatever caster setting you go with, watch out for any differences in caster between each side. Our tacomas are very prone to pulling one direction if there are caster differences (it will pull to the side that has less caster). MAYBE just MAYBE .2* less caster on the driver side to combat against road crown, but even that might be excessive. Definitely send it back if its the other way around (passenger side with less caster)

 

nicely explained. I have the same lift height and 265/70/17's so Im going with this. thanks man

 

I think you have a misunderstanding of how alignments work how suspensions and the change in suspension geometry happens when under compression and why and how manufacturers create the specs for a vehicle. Tires if inflated properly and you aren't doing the 60ft slalom as fast as you can will not roll as you describe under normal use to the point of causing major tire wear. Plus with a truck that gets off road and lowering tire pressures the tire cups in the center thus wearing the outer edges more than the center so to do a true test do compare your hypothesis to what I am saying we would have to have 2 identical trucks one set with my alignment suggestions one with yours all other variables the same. Roads driven on etc. These would have to be pavement queens driven exactly the same to see which one prevails.

 

Following with much interest. I've got new tires on the way and will be getting an alignment next week. Is Firestone a good reputable option?

 

Firestone has the lifetime alignment option but in reality it all depends on your alignment tech we have a good one where I live that and they let me back in the shop and work with the tech on getting the adjustments where I want them. The tech we have here is willing to work with me on what I like to see and is very accommodating.

Best bet is to find a shop that is reputable and that has someone who understands more about the dynamics of suspension that and alignment is just static and that there is much more that goes into understanding an alignment than the adjustments. Don't be afraid to do some research on suspensions specifically then go and interview your shop and tech.

 

Pop a gopro on your front bumper looking back at the front tire and make a turn at even a slow speed of 10mph around a corner.... BIG sidewalls of the tires on our trucks flex A LOT. you would be surprised at how much the tread rolls under even under very slow turns. we are talking all of -0.2 of camber.... not excessive at all


But i definitely agree on finding a shop that just does alignments.... those other big box places are simply a toe n go, they dont give two shits about anything else.

 

I don't know what load range you are running or tire pressures but with the way I run mine there is minimal tire roll. Our suspension the way it work induces negative camber upon compression. I ran taller sidewalls on my old F350 and had minimal tire roll as well and the factory specs for those trucks were close to what the taco is. Again static is a baseline for where the suspension geometry plays into affect. I can do a whole lesson on the mechanics and geometry in suspension design and the way things are set the way they are. There is much much more to this than just tire roll and the alignment settings that is why I have stated you need to have a good understanding of the dynamics of the way suspensions react and work while moving. Oh and tire design, type, and sidewall design plays a huge affect on tire roll as well not just tall sidewalls. Read about tire sidewall apex and how that works with creating a stiffer or more pliable sidewall.

You'd be surprised there aren't that many vehicles that have adjustments for more than toe and some that do their adjustments (usually just camber) are so minor they really have very minimal affect maybe a tenth or 2 of a degree. For most strut cars you can just forget about caster adjustment. This is where companies like SPC come in and sell shims, cam bolts, adjustable suspension links etc. Then we get paid to install that and the alignment. Talk about good $$$. It's not really the shops fault but the manufacturers who design the vehicles with only toe or minor adjustments to camber & caster.

 

-0.2* of camber is within spec afaik. Plus the truck looks so much better with zero to a smidge of negative camber vs any positive camber.

Alls i know is i have seen much more even wear with -0.2* of camber than i did with 0 or positive camber.

 

Spec is -.1 to +1.4

If you have seen better tire wear great but I would not suggest telling someone to go out of spec based on your experience. There are too many variables. Also looks plays nothing with actual function (see stretched tire slammed huge neg camber rice rockets, extreme example). If tires have any warranty and they can prove it's due to not having an alignment with in manf. spec or rotating properly per their recc then there it goes out the door.

All of my recommendations are coming from years of experience as a tech as well as racing, building suspensions, and setting up many many race cars and auto x suspensions down to corner balancing etc.