Anyone Have an Opinion on Clutch Max clutches?

Ran across a company selling clutches on Amazon (Clutch America). They made clutches that fit my 2000 Tacoma (Clutch Max). Their prices are too good to be true. They are said to be made in the USA, from parts made in various countries (China?). They make so many clutches for so many cars that I could not finish taking a look at all of their 60/page listings of their different clutches after spending about half an hour. I am just wondering whether I am writing off a source that perhaps, and I give that little chance, would work well for my current new clutch installation.

So, I am looking for anyone who has purchased and installed one of these clutches on their Tacoma:

 

looks to me like it's a discount product with a discount result.

this subaru forester/impreza clutch speaks to a product that is barely adequate to basic around-town driving.

$94 ClutchMaxPRO Heavy Duty OEM Clutch Kit Compatible with Subaru Baja Crosstrek Forester Impreza Legacy Outback Saab 9-2X 2.0L 2.5L EJ25 EJ251 EJ252 EJ253 EZ30 FB20 (CP15004HD-CK)

https://www.amazon.com/ClutchMaxPRO...s/B08FF4M57P?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews

or the civic clutch seems to have repeated issues of not disengaging, and issues with the return window after figuring that out

$95 ClutchMaxPRO Heavy Duty OEM Clutch Kit Compatible with 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 Honda Civic 1.8L SOHC R18A1 (CP08046HD-CK)

https://www.amazon.com/ClutchMaxPRO...s/B08FNVY6JY?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews

reading through many of the other variations with at least 15 reviews, it seems there's significant and recurring issues where it's 'supposed to fit', and doesn't, also a few cases for every variation where it goes out 1-2 months after install, far outside the warranty/return window.

i wouldn't trust or recommend this clutch in my vehicles.

 

Clutch job is not something I'd want to have to redo, personally I'd stick with something tried and true like an Aisin clutch, I've heard a lot of good things regarding Exedy brand too.

Particularly with cheap bearings involved, you don't want an input shaft or throwout bearing failure not long after you put it all back together

 

Clutchmax is a scam . They sell very poor quality clutches on eBay under clutchamerica and on Amazon under global parts connect. Same person owns all three companies . Do not buy from them trust me. They jack up their reviews to make it seem like the product is good.

 

always the best names.

Superior Clutch
Ultimate Clutch
Clutch Of Greatness
Visionary Clutch

 

Thank you, @soundman98, for showing me those reviews. I read them and feel that you're recommendation is likely correct. Never saw so many uh-oh reviews. I suspected that myself before asking, based simply on the $153 price for a clutch kit with flywheel made to fit my 2000 Tacoma (if it looks too good to be true, it isn't). The pictures look nice. Sellers/Manufacturers making profits selling low-quality products by clever marketing?

You cannot buy an OEM Toyota flywheel for $153. I see prices like $697 (CamelbackToyota) and $614 (OurismanToyotaofRichmond) at lower-priced on-line American Toyota dealers. A flywheel (complete with the Ring Gear and torque-to-yield bolts) would have been $331.80 at PartSuq.com (TWICE THE PRICE OF THE WHOLE CLUTCHMAX KIT WITH FLYWHEEL), but they don't have the actual OEM flywheel in stock any longer. RockAuto has much less expensive flywheels for sale: LUK LFW198 $63.79 with teeth, Sachs NFW6938 $81.79 W/O teeth, Platinum Driveline FW926 $75.99 w/teeth and dowels plus a 24 mo warrantee, Perfection Clutch 50126 w/teeth, ATP Z393 oos, Pioneer FW267 oos. Not sure they are all OEM equivalents.

The last thing I want to do is to have to take the transmission out again after replacing the clutch because I installed low-quality replacement parts! And, these Clutch Max guys add insult to the injury by not giving enough time for buyers to get their new clutches in and checked out before their warrantee is up. That's REALLY not nice. Why is that allowed? Imagine that happening to you!

@eon_blue I feel you. AISIN and Exedy indeed seem to be go-to clutches for Tacoma people. Do you know of a site where I could enter my VIN and find which AISIN or Exedy clutch would be OEM equivalent for my 2000 Tacoma? My last paragraph says I agree with you. As far as the bearings go, I bought them some time back and will check them out before using. Thanks for the heads up.

@Kmh1212 It sounds like you either had some bad experience, actually know the people involved, or maybe heard from someone else. You are saying it's like a mob operation? I first found ClutchAmerica as a seller on AMAZON, where I first ran into ClutchMax clutches (I think; to the best of my knowledge). Within what I first posted on this thread (copied from eBay) gives what they say about their clutches. From what you are saying, that glitzy stuff I posted is beyond marketing hype. Thanks a bunch for your information. It is exactly what I was most worried about. Looking at the stated quanties of clutches have already sold of the various clutches they list for sale, and they list hundreds that cover a wide selection of automobiles, that represents a lot of dollars honest human beings have wasted on low-quality products that will have short life-times.

@TacoTuesday1 (lots of TacoTuesdays on here )
Love your list of superlatives. . . I get the message.

Thanks to all of you for the valuable help you have provided, and for your time. As very low cost providers, I had to give Clutch Max a chance, just to round out my OCD shopping "due diligence." Replacement parts are becoming less available (for my 2000) while they are getting more expensive; at the same time, shopping for replacement parts is becoming intolerable, at least for me. I kind of wish there was a central automobile parts purchased complaints department, like the BBB used to be, so these guys could be posted to with honest information, such as you provided, to help future clutch shoppers, a ONE-STOP place anyone could go to find out how real people that have bought real products feel about their purchases of "virtual products." On-line reviews maintained by sellers isn't doing us many favors, and I suspect many are manipulated, while we are buying more and more of the things we need from on-line sellers. Does TW have such a thread for local use?

Saving the time and frustration of just one DIY guy who had to go back and take out their transmission yet again to replace a clutch they had just installed a month prior would be a great place to start. Imagine!

 

what kind of issues are you running into that you're considering changing the flywheel?

under most cases, reuse with minor resurfacing is more than adequate. it's somewhat rare that flywheel replacement is a necessity.

 

When my clutch failed clutchamerica completely ignored my messages regarding setting up a warranty exchange. Ebay refused to step in since it was past 30 days . When I contacted clutchmax on their website they also ignored my messages. Clutchamerica has 203 k items sold on eBay with a 99.9% positive review . Youtube reviews on the other hand are similar to my experience with them. . Digging turned up both companies trademark registration application applied for by the same person in 2018 .

 

Cheap flywheels are nice if you don't care about having ankles

 

Your truck is worth an extra few hundred bucks for a good kit

 

Just go OE (actual OE, not OEM, there is a difference) and rock on. Most people get 25+ years from a OE Toyota clutch. Most everything else sucks....looking at you Centerforce!

 

So, you had the unfortunate, and unnecessary, experience of buying one of their clutches and it failed. How long did it work properly before failing, and what, exactly was the failure, if you know? I am very sorry that you had that bad experience, and I sympathize with you because I am in the middle of changing out my 2000 Tacoma's clutch (DIY), and have its transmission out, which for my Tacoma was a tricky proposition (because the frame cross-member that runs beneath the transmission is welded in and cannot simply be removed, which would have made removing the transmission almost a piece of cake, relatively speaking). I found that process so unfriendly that I really do NOT want to go through it again soon after installing a new clutch. For that reason, I began taking the new clutch shopping process OCD seriously. ClutchMax/ClutchAmerica said all the right things, and their photos were compelling, but I had never before heard of them. I was looking at their clutch kit for my Tacoma, one that including a new flywheel, and they were asking $153, and that was a huge RED FLAG because a Toyota OEM flywheel would cost something in the neighborhood of $700, by itself. Even so, the low cost had already gotten my attention, and it would not let me go.

For my posting here, I was hoping to find a person exactly like you, somebody who had a bad experience with one of their clutches and could testify about ClutchMax clutch quality, or lack therof, including their interactions with the principle actors following having their clutch fail. I believe your story. You explained everything I need to know to write ClutchMax off as cheap junk and will warn whomever I may have influence over not to ever consider buying one of their clutches. Thank you sincerely for giving me all that information. It is totally helpful. Another person posted two sets of reviews from their website, and when I read them, was amazed to see what percentage of those reviews indicated quality problems. How they get 99.9% is beyond me.

Also, you did all the right things, it seems to me, at least everything you could. Then you posted your message on a widely read forum (at least for Toyota Tacomas), which will potentially give your remarks wide local spread in that market. Your personal pain is compounded because ClutchMax went after almost the total automobile market (I clicked my way through a great many of their advertisements at 60 per page, maybe 16 pages, and still didn't get near to the bottom, if I was on page 16, at the bottom it indicated that the list went at least on to page 26. Don't actually remember, but I don't normally waste my time like that. My time is too important to me. Maybe their reputation will one day suffer from "BREAKING NEWS" that gives them national exposure, I wish. Just think, 203,000 people bought cheap junk clutches, all of which said purchased clutches go along with a couple of thousand dollars they also had to spend to have a shop install that clutch, and it is likely they will eventually find that it is junk, but will not be able to recover a dime from ClutchAmerica. No refund for the price of the product, the shop labor, or their own personal time wasted. 203,000 people scammed!

Thank you for helping me avoid making a terrible decision!

Oh, one more thing I wanted to ask you. Where did you find the Google Reviews you spoke of?

 

Great name, MadNachos! Judging from the remaining friction material, I could have gotten more than 25 years out of my clutch disc, made by LUK. Are you calling LUK here an OE (Original Equipment)?

I must ask you to help me understand what you mean when you say there is a difference between OE and OEM. In advance, I believe I will agree with you, but I just now realized that I don't know what either term actually means, precisely by definition.

Your comment forced me to use Google, and Wikipedia, and other sources, just to end up more confused than I was before reading your comment. I thought I understood what an OEM was, until your remark, which must have been pretty meaningful because of the work it made me do, in an attempt to understand.

I do agree that it is important to use the correct part when replacing a failed or worn part, and to me, personally, that means a part manufactured to be precisely THE Toyota part number that is shown in Toyota's exploded parts diagrams. Note that (I believe, but am unsure, and don't know why it would necessarily be true) only one manufacturer is licensed to manufacture any one of Toyota's parts.

When referring to a specific Toyota part existing in a particular instance of all the vehicles they made for a given manufacturing year (say their clutch cover -- pressure plate that was used in my version of the 2000 Tacoma that has the 2.4 L 2RZ-FE engine, and is a 2WD, and has a W59 transmission and VIN. . .), Toyota part number 31210-04030, it turns out that is a part that Toyota labels as being manufactured by LUK.

The equivalent Toyota part number for the clutch cover labeled by Toyota as being manufactured by AISIN is 31210-30240, a different Toyota part number. Along with the part numbers, Toyota, at least sometimes, will specify the duration in time that a particular part was being installed in their Tacomas in one or more of their manufacturing plants. The LUK manufactured clutch disc for example, 31250-04030, was being installed from 08.1997 to 09.2000. Decoding my VIN will tell you what month my Tacoma was manufactured by Toyota (03.2000), so that was the Toyota part number for the clutch cover that was installed in my truck.

Who is the OEM in these cases? Toyota manufactured and sold the 2000 Tacoma, but either LUK or AISIN manufactured the clutch cover that is in any particular 2000 Tacoma, mine has a LUK 31210-04030. Toyota, LUK and AISIN are all manufacturers, but who is the "Original Equipment Manufacturer"? I feel like the OEM of the 2000 Tacoma would be Toyota, and the OEM of the clutch cover that was installed in that same 2000 Tacoma was either LUK or AISIN. I haven't the foggiest idea whether what I just said is true, though I go around acting as if I do, even to the point of purchasing replacement parts, thinking I am using OEM.

I also recognize that certain parts houses will call a part number OE EQUIVALENT. What does that mean precisely?

I also recognize the fact that Toyota, during the design and manufacturing lifespan of an individual product, such as the 2000 Tacoma, keeps updating and replacing components throughout that lifespan, and possibly throughout the supported life of that vehicle, maybe? You will find Toyota parts having "substitutions" (or "replacements") of a main part number, sometimes many, and I assume each substitution part will be manufactured to be good enough to play the role (in form, fit, and function) as the original part number.

No matter how long I keep typing thoughts that come to my mind, I will still have to admit that I am not an expert, and thus cannot be sure of everything I say, so again, please help me out and explain what you meant by saying OE and OEM are different and please give the two definitions you use. Moreover, please do not think that I am trying to game you in any way. I seriously told you how I view the issue, as I seriously do not fully understand, and I also admitted that I am on thin ice since I have not resolved the top definitional issues, so will defer to you if you know better.

I must not be the only one confused. When i was reading at Wikipedia about "Original Equipment Manufacturers" (OEM) they gave a definition, but added that there was ambiguity in its meaning, thus there exist more than one meaning. Then, to my astonishment, Wikipedia had no page to inform me what "Original Equipment" is. Nothing came back when I searched that phrase on Wikipedia, NADA!

From Wikipedia:

An original equipment manufacturer (OEM) is generally perceived as a company that produces parts and equipment that may be marketed by another manufacturer.

However, the term is also used in several other ways, which causes ambiguity. It sometimes means the maker of a system that includes other companies' subsystems, an end-product producer, an automotive part that is manufactured by the same company that produced the original part used in the automobile's assembly, or a value-added reseller.[1][2] I underlined the two senses of meaning for OEM I believe we are discussing.

And they accompany that with an interesting diagram that supposedly shows the Supply Chain Pyramid:


Supply chain pyramid

Original: DennisK Translated text: Kaasterly - Based on: File:Lieferantenpyramide.jpg Original source: in Anlehnung an Wenger, R. (2006): Elektronischer Vergabeprozess bei diekten Gütern. Diss, Univ. St. Gallen, S. 28

A drawing of a supply chain pyramid for manufactured goods.

If I said that Toyota was the OEM of my 2000 Toyota because it uses parts manufactured by "parts suppliers," and they also use components, such as a transmission (W59) manufactured by a major transmission supplier, here called a component supplier, and they also use support companies that provide services such as being a system supplier, or a model supplier, would I be correct? Or if I think of AISIN as a (major) parts supplier of Toyota for their manufactured vehicles, would I be incorrect in calling AISIN an OEM? That imprecise definition given by Wikipedia suggests they can both be considered to be OEMs.

The way I think of a part (like a clutch cover) is that it IS its part number. For a clutch cover that exists in my Tacoma, that clutch cover has a Toyota part number. ANY part that is labeled with that part number, it seems to me, must be form, fit, and functionally identical to the Toyota part number, no matter who actually manufactured that part. Then, I must admit, that for some third-party manufacturer to step in and actually make a clutch cover that is identical to the one manufactured by either LUK or AISIN might be just a silly thought because the chance that they would actually create a fully identical part might be near zero, and certainly impractical to allow, due to the great many variables at play when manufacturing any given part whatsoever. Perhaps that is why Toyota has a unique part number for the LUK clutch cover, and a different unique part number for the AISIN clutch cover?

 

Thanks for the comment, @soundman98. I have a question for you about resurfacing. Why could I not resurface the flywheel and pressure plate myself, using sandpaper or some other abrasive material wrapped around a flat wide object, coupled with sanding skills I have yet to map out? Let me give you a couple of photos that might show well enough for you to render an opinion.



Those surfaces are surely ugly, but why wouldn't sandpaper on a flat block of wood be ok, going through a series of increasing grits to get to a final surface that is "smoth enough" work to resurface these things? The surfaces are FLAT, right. Yes, they go around in a circle, but they are not crowned or cupped?

Of course, if you say that would work, I would come back and ask for a suggestion of what grit should I start with. Not sayin that I would actually do. Just asking.

Then you ask, why the pressure plate also, everybody always replaces the pressure plate along with the friction disc, the actual wear part, and they resurface their flywheels. Ok, I was first planning on replacing just the two parts and resurfacing the flywheel, just like everybody else. I can go back to that position. Maybe I will. Maybe I have. The clutch cover does have sub-parts, such as that spring diaphram that could wear out as time and usage passes, like the fingers the TOB pushes against. And the flywheel has very few moving parts to wear out.

I do know that I will be looking for OEM level quality in both the new cover and disc, once I learn what OEM actually means. I'm ready to do the final pass to select what to buy. Working on a 24 yo vehicle for which the OEM level parts seem to be less and less available. But I still expect to succeed in finding what I want.

As for why might I consider buying a new flywheel, well, then I have a couple of arcane reasons.

1) If I am buying new clutch parts, and the pressure plate surface must be pretty much the same as the flywheel surface, why not just by all new? Naive, but have to consider it.

2) If I want to have it resurfaced by some professional resurfacer, I need to find one, and after calling a few places nearby and getting answers like "nobody in this store even knows what flywheel resurfacing is," and "no, we don't resurface flywheels," it didn't take me long to become frustrated, since there were more important issues I was then dealing with. I learned that resurfacing of a flywheel isn't a machine shop kind of thing. They don't use metal lathes , as I had imagined (I think it is because these friction surfaces can get plenty hot during operation and have a tendency to harden at certain non-uniform spots, making it almost impossible to get a fresh clean, smooth new surface, at least sometimes, using a metal lathe. Guess that means hand sanding is out, huh? They have evidently gone to some kind of alternative process that uses grinding, and I currently know nothing about that jprocess. This one is in the yet TBD category as far as my planning goes.

3) In a different discussion, I was taught that there exist what is called a Dual Mass Flywheel that pulls the rotational vibrations being quelled by the springs on the friction disc back a position in the drive train closer to the crankshaft (namely the flywheel), so that vibration dampening can serve both for dampening power hits from the clutch engagements and also any vibrations coming from the engine as well, putting all the dampening into the flywheel, eliminating the springs now on the friction disc. The Tacoma I have has four cylinders, and I am just thinking about how much smoother that kind of flywheel might make my engine feel while driving? It always did have the sound of an engine that was not enjoying a ride on the Interstate! I am hoping that some of the new parts I have added might help with that sound. And there is even a special version of the dual mass flywheel that uses centrifugal pendulum actions in another advance in that technology. That probably will not go any further than this. I am just thinking.

 

yeah, i'm definitely curious about that one as well. i suspect it's an old fashioned way to split hairs though...

1)
i started looking into it as well yeah, definitely buy new.

i found a few resources saying that flywheel reuse is possible, but it's always best to replace it only because everything is taken out and exposed already.


3) dual mass more has to do with compensating for 'violence'. think drift car bouncing off the rev limiter, while engaging and disengaging the clutch to snap the rear wheels to break traction to induce the slide. while some vibration dampening is useful, most of it's characteristics will be lost on a stock tuned truck.

if the engine tone bothers you, fuel, intake, and header alteration will have a more meaningful effect

 

Can you say a little more about some easy alterations that would affect its TONE, on the gentler side: no racing, drifting; suggestions that would not break my bank?

BTW: You just taught me something, so thanks. Never thought about how drifting was started. Neat!

 

resurfacing is done at a machine shop.

a decent used OEM flywheel can be bought cheap.

 

Thanks you for that information. Are there any potential downsides to using a restored old OEM flywheel? If I am having a hard time finding some place that resurfaces flywheels, which I have been after checking a few places, that gives me more latitude in looking for a solution. Thanks again.

 

drifting is far more advanced than just one technique! but the whole idea is to manipulate and control the vehicles trajectory by any means necessary in the showiest way possible. plenty use the e-brake to break rear wheel traction, and some will use steering movements to 'snap' the vehicle past the tires grip limits...



engine tone is affected by the intake routing, as well as the exhaust routing. think air in, and air out. altering the air in either way will alter the tone.

simplest/cheapest, your motor has an intake resonator box on the side of it. it's the cube hanging off the intake line, just up and left of the oil fill plug in this picture i stole.


either cut off and seal the opening, or replace that section with another piece of tubing of the same size.

that resonator is there to reduce noise, harmonics, and alters the airflow into the motor. removal will increase noise and harmonics, sometimes desirably, sometimes not. but it's a cheap alteration to play with. because of the location of the MAF, there's not too much other things that can be done with the intake side.

the next intake option is to add a spacer, but it's a lot more expensive:
https://www.aesinnovate.com/product-page/2000-2004

nothing comes free, and this is no exception. an intake spacer like that moves the power band of the motor lower down in the power band. it can make it seem more lively by offering the same output the truck had at 5000 rpm at 3000 rpm, but at the expense of ultimate power. but because of the change, 'redline' is now going to feel like 4000 rpm. the trucks power output will plateu at 4000 and not produce much more power. there would be a slight change to the engine tone, but it's more of a performance alteration.

exhaust is a ton more time and money consuming. it can be as simple as having a cherry bomb welded in place of the muffler to be much louder and more obnoxious, to a complete exhaust system, or, if you only crave alteration to the exhaust note pulses, changing the header alters how the exhaust pulses from each cylinder interact with each other, which changes the tone.

this is just 2 examples of different headers for that motor
https://www.jegs.com/i/Pace-Setter/766/70-1181/10002/-1

https://flasharkracing.com/products/exhaust-header-for-1995-2001-toyota-tacoma-2-4l-2-7l-l4

 

Thank you, soundman98, you stole the exact engine bay of my 2000 Tacoma, cept that one is all put together and white while mine is blue and all taken apart. I only see one thing that isn't in my truck.

Appreciate your doing "for example" shopping for me so I can easily take a look at the ideas you are suggesting. I found the products interesting. The black painted header was discontinued, but the rest were still alive, and the stainless steel header sure looks nice at $109. I did make an inquiry about fit. Also appreciate your concise description of what each modification should do for the truck. It all makes perfect sense to me. I'm not rich, but the prices don't seem to be out of line.

To keep my current project on schedule, I am not going to get serious until after I have the truck all fixed and working better than ever, and fully healed from its' "major surgery", but I will remember this thread and come back to it again when I see the time crunch opening back up.

Among your recommendations, if it was your choice of what you wanted to do to your truck, which one would you start with? Better performance or better sound, either way is a win, seems to me, and probably worth the money and effort.