Any Auto Body Painters out there? Is “Silver Sky Metallic” that hard to match?

Okay I’ve not been able to get on Tacomaworld much in the last few months, but some of you may have seen my post dealing with the headache of dealing with insurance after some drove into the right rear quarter panel of my taco! (https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/advise-needed-on-handling-auto-body-insurance-adjusters.774604)

So, I finally got things worked out with the insurance and took my truck to the Toyota dealership auto body shop. It’s a wonderful dealership and been nothing but good to me. When I picked up my truck, it was in the evening, and everything looks great—and still does from a distance.

Unfortunately, after having my truck back for a couple days, I started to notice a few sloppy things. And then, when the sun was hitting my truck, one day, I noticed my worst fear, the paint didn’t match! When I brought the truck back, I was told “the paint never going to match 100%, there’s too many variations even with him cars painted the same color.” I don’t buy that because previously the person at the shop I was speaking to told me that standard PPG formula now that anyone can mix up and it will match.

I went to pick it up the other day, and the difference was really standing out to me more than before. At first they offered to “blend“ it for me. But I told them there was no way I wanted them to start trying to blend paint into the perfectly good undamaged portions of my truck.

They assured me they will make it right, and if they repaint, they have promised me they will disassemble everything and paint it off the truck and order all new plastic clips and bolts, etc. (even offered to let me take it anywhere. I wanted to have it redone and they would pay for it.)

Anyway, so now my question. On Monday they’re going to let me meet with the paint specialist/representative, so he can look at it and figure out what is going on. To me it looks like it’s not so much a matter of the color, not matching as it is the metallic and it either doesn’t match or it’s too heavy in the new panel. it’s a tough thing to take a picture of, but I tried, and below are a few pictures. Not sure if anyone out there has auto body painting experience that might be able to chime in and give me any advice before I meet with the “expert “? Many thanks in advance !

 

Given that they are repainting parts of the truck, it is darn near impossible to truly match to the t paint that has been exposed to the elements. They should be able to get very very close, but if you are OCD enough, there will always be a light in which you question if it truly matches.

Personally I would take it to another shop for a consultation if you are not happy. Get a second opinion on the quality of the paint matching. That can’t be done via the internet.

 

Thanks. That makes sense and I agree it’s very difficult to show over the computer in a picture. I know what my eyes are seeing, and they’ve already admitted there are about 10 different size metallics. I thought a camera analysis would match it and be able to tell them exactly the right formula to use, but apparently not. They said those cameras are only about 85% accurate at best. I’ll see what their specialist, or rather representative, says on Monday and then decide how to proceed. Thank you.

 

My silver sky Tacoma with 100% OEM paint...depending on time of day and angles the metallic can look anywhere from super bright to damn near cement.

I think you'll have a tough time getting a single panel "perfect". And most likely no one but you would ever notice either way.

 

There are a ton of variables with high metallic paint that makes it near impossible to perfectly match. Even the gun pressure when spraying will cause it to look different due to how the metal flake ended up, even with a perfect color match. Based on those pics I wouldn't mess with it. That looks about how I would expect a high metal flake repair to end up.

 

My prior experience with a non-exact match and issues from certain angles: it was the clear coat.

At 90 degrees it looked ok, but from an angle it reflected as way off.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Very interesting about the clear coat @PiñonTaco. That is exactly what us happening in this case. When looking at it I was saying to myself that the color is right on, but the metallic is where the problem was. I don’t really know how it gets mixed but I was wondering if the metallic flake gets mixed into the clear. Some manufacturers have the clear mixed into the base apparently. Not sure how the Toyota paint is.

 

That's the problem with silver metallic paints. Some are light, some are dark, some are grey-ish, and some are blue-ish. It depends on the paint mixture and how the sunlight hits it. Sadly, the only way to truly correct is to respray the entire truck using one paint. A 'color-match-blend' rarely suffices.

 

the shop doesn't mix the paint, it might be mixed correctly, but if they redo it you run the risk of it being worse. my new truck looks like things don't match sometimes, different angles, amount of sun, ect, seems to me this color has a pearl effect some times, one pic it looks to dark and another it looks too lite . its a tuff call

 

Looks fine to me.

 

I wonder if the painter did a spray out on a test piece to see if it matched your trucks paint for both the color and metallic consistency. I hope it was not "this the color code and the machine made up the formula" spray it

I have seen a lot of Silver vehicles that have been repaired - from one direction it looks like a match and from another it was not.

They do panel blending to minimize the effect of it not possibly being a 100% match. On a year old vehicle I would be like you not wanting to have a perfect panel touched

I have a metallic blue GMC truck that at 13yrs old needed to have a front fender and bumper replaced. They did blend into the door panel but not the hood. I can see a slight difference in a certain light between the hood and fender, but it is 13yrs old

 

Similar experience with my SnugTop shell in SSM.

When I had it installed the dealer even mentioned "Damn, they did a really good job with your paint - - they usually have a lot of trouble making silver sky metallic look good"

And he was not wrong. From where we were standing and how the weather was and even walking around the truck it looked absolutely perfect.

Then a few days later I was walking out to the truck from work and I was like "what in the hell?"
... It was like my shell had changed colors and suddenly looked completely different than the truck.

So yea... Chameleon... Sometimes from some angles it looks absolutely phenomenal and then at other certain times it's a pretty stark contrast

 

My first question is did the blend adjacent panels? If the did there should not be an issue. Normally they do not blend a cab corner or door when replacing a bed side. The gap and contours from the bed to the cab usually hide any variations in the paint.

Someone mentioned the shop doing a spray out. I bet that silver has at least 4 to 5 variations on the paint code. Meaning when the painter goes to mix it, the formula may be a bit different on each shade variations. Then, if the painter suck and does not set the air pressure right or paint correct the metallic flake can pool or lay down wrong and there is another color issue.

People think painting is easy, but it really is an art.

 

i feel like 'art' is understated.

i'll summarize.

mixing


mixing


painting

 

This exactly. Plus you do have to blend into adjacent panels. They can not just panel shoot paint. Always have to blend into other panels. This way it's not noticeable.

 

Good looking truck @Deacon Blues! I am beginning to the feeling I should just leave it be. Originally when I looked at it I was actually impressed. Now when I look at it in the sun though I am dismayed. The "new" paint actually has more metallic and I would love the whole truck to to that exact variation. Of course that is out of the question. You are right, I am probably the only one who would notice, but because it's coupled with the gap/reveal issue around the taillight (detailed in another thread), I am still possibly going to make them redo everything again and start over. On Monday they are supposed to have their paint rep look at it and speak to me and see what he thinks the solution is.

Thanks @Trail Limo. When I look at the picture I actually totally agree! The problem is the metallic is more pronounced in real life and in sunlight. So like I mentioned above, I will see what the "expert" says. The shop did tell me there can be about 5 different paint chip samples for the color and there are varying sizes of metallic.

Yes @Borracho Loco, sadly that seems true. I actually notice on about every light color Tacoma I see how the paint on the front bumper cover doesn't match the rest of the paint (mine included). They come like that from the factory. Sad. (I personally believe it might have to do with the covers being black plastic and then not being properly primed, but who knows.)

For sure @RIX TUX, "you run the risk of it being worse," that is my greatest fear in all this. I mean as I mentioned above, they have even offered to let me take it anywhere I want to get it repainted and they will pay the bill. But then when it is worse I have nowhere to go back to.

@mlcc, yes I agree, in the picture it looks really good!

Yes @grissom, I am in totally agreement. If the truck was older and the original paint was deteriorated, I would understand the blending.

@LiquidArrogance, that is exactly what happened to me! I was super impressed when I picked up the truck in the late afternoon and like @Mastiffsrule mentioned, the gap between the bed and the cab totally compensates for small differences. It was two days late in direct sun that I looked at it and became dismayed when I saw the (original paint) tailgate next to the part of the new quarter panel above the taillight that I saw the difference.

Thanks again @Mastiffsrule. I definitely can appreciate the art in painting! I actually had always thought, though, that a lot of the "art" was in the mixing. Then I was told that nowadays there is a "recipe" that makes the paint a perfect match. And I thought that a camera analysis lets the computer perfectly customize the mix to be a match. How much I have learned now that that is not the case!

You mentioned that you thought that silver has at least 4 to 5 variations. That is exactly what the shop manager was telling me; he said there can be different paint chips that all have a little variation to them. I had no idea that that happened in this day and age. He also mentioned something about sometimes they can paint a panel and it matches but then as it dries and the water evaporates it can cause some variation. Not sure I quoted that exactly right, or if there is any trust to it or he was just blowing smoke at me.

 

I do this for a living and personally I believe the shop got paid to blend the adjacent panels but didn't. Panel painting will never match, one in 100 spray-outs match close enough to panel paint. You might get away with it on certain panels but not on a Toyota.

 

Looks fine.

Let it age a bit. You’ll feel silly if they re-paint and it turn out further off…

 

WRONG!


Almost all production type collision repair facilities mix their own paint. small guy's, used car lot/rebuilders, and shade tree guys, go to the automotive paint store and buy "premixed" or mixed onsite, finishes and clears.


To the OP, the biggest problem with pearls, and metallic colors getting repaired in the usa is... the poly (metal flake), is polished on both sides through most Asian, and European paint suppliers to the oems. in the USA, most paint suppliers only polish one side of the poly flakes. this gives the poly a "flip, or flop" under certain conditions, and light angles. it truly is incredibly difficult to match some colors, especially light metallic colors, and ALL pearl, 3 stage colors. it takes craftsman/artists, to get it so our eyes cant see it.

Just remember that when you are choosing a color... yeah not many people have it, and or it is a cool color but... how will it look if, (when) you have to have it repaired. you chose the color, dont complain when a human being with 25 year old HVLP technology, paint gun in a human hand, cant match a computer controlled, material volume, pressure, environmentally controlled system that was applied in a completely sterile environment, on a panel that had no damage, and no prior paint color coverage, to affect the top coat texture, and color match. (just my .02)

Depending on where the damage was on that box side panel, most shops would not blend to the tailgate, or the cab corner... blending within the panel if you will, by not base-coating the poly coverage on the entire panel but, clear coating the entire panel. when this happens, the clear can and will affect the hue of the original poly basecoat, changing it's appearance to our eye, even though no color was sprayed on 100% of the panel.

hope this helps... 30 years in the collision repair industry. Ski

 

Thanks @Rusty66, I’m sure they got paid. I mean I know they got the other parties insurance up to $50/hey for labor, and there is no way any of the techs saw close to that for their work. I understand the need for blending, especially when you’re only painting part of a repair of a panel, but like I said earlier, I have no confidence in the shop, blending in to adjacent panels, nor do I want them to have to sand in do anything to other panels of my truck which are still perfect. I understand what you are saying about them rarely matching too. I guess in my naïve rationale, and from what little painting experience I have, they would take a mix, spray it on the old panel and check whether it matches, and then, when it doesn’t go back and make adjustments to their settings/mix and then try again until they get it spot on.

Thanks @OZ TRD! True enough! If the latter happens I’ll probably loose it and just steal the Corolla they have me jammed into!

Thanks @skidooboy! And that’s very interesting information and I think you might’ve hit the nail right on the head! By that I mean several things you’ve said match up with different things the auto body manager told me when we spoke briefly on the phone. The bit about the poly flakes being polished on both sides would account for why I’m seeing more metallic in the newly painted panel. I also I’m glad you explained a little bit about how some shops to still make their own paint and some do not. I will have to double check with the shop, how they handled the paint

The manager told me he can get five different chips that are all a little different, that almost leads me to believe he bought it premixed, but I’ll have to confirm. He also mentioned something about them changing the supplier of the paint I don’t remember from what brand, but I think it was to Benjamin Moore. But again I’ll have to ask. And when their paint specialist is there on Monday I’ll have to inquire about , the metallic flake they use and try to make it sound like I know a little bit! Lol thank you.