2020 SR5 - Towing Package (TSC installed)

I bought a 2020 SR5 and it has the towing package. On the spec sheet it shows it has the Trailer-Sway Control (TSC) installed.

---------------------------
Per Toyota's site:
With the available V6 Tow Package, the 2020 Toyota Tacoma can tow up to 6,800 pounds. The Tow Package comes with the 4/7-pin connector that sits cleanly inside the three-piece bumper so you can haul things out without any snags. Included in the package is a class IV receiver hitch with trailing wiring, transmission cooler, engine oil cooler, 130-amp alternator and heavy-duty battery to allow you to tow 6,500 pounds and can help tow the truck up to 6,800 (with rear-wheel drive) or carry a payload of up to 1,440 lbs.

Trailer-Sway Control (TSC) is included in the available Tow Package. This electronic system is designed to maintain vehicle control when your load shifts, causing the trailer to sway. The Trailer-Sway Control applies brake pressure on individual wheels and manages engine torque to help you regain control of the trailer under adverse conditions.
---------------------------

My question is this - if the TSC is installed - do I *NEED* a REDARC Tow-Pro range Elite *OR* will this conflict with the TSC?

 

Would help if you provided some context...how can we answer your question without knowing what the hell you are towing?

 

My understanding is that TSC modulates the truck brakes to maintain stability, not the trailer brakes where a redarc would come into play.

 

For clarification I have towed a few types of trailers. A small 10' garbage U-haul trailer (600 miles), a covered motorcycle trailer (300 miles), a 26' boat and trailer (150 miles), a 26' motorhome and a 2020 Airstream Flying Cloud 26RB (150 miles). None of these caused any concern - or towing issues - *SO FAR* that I noticed. The larger the load - the longer it took to get up to speed or slow down of course. But that's just the TSC and the Tacoma. No excessive turns, banks, uphills, downhills, or sudden stops.

In MY *limited* towing experience - I'm not sure because I don't have a REDARC Tow-Pro range Elite to compare this to - so I was wondering if someone who HAS the TSC and REDARC Tow-Pro range Elite - might have some comment. That was the hope/intent/purpose of the question. It's more about *their* experience, rather than what I am towing. 99.9999% of the time, I will be towing around a little 10' thing to pickup stuff. I know it handles fine with that - just wondering how it might help with a larger load - and what that difference would be - if at all - and if it would help me for future towing situations. Thats all.

In all likelihood - this MIGHT just be an Toyota engineer question, and that might be the answer - but I thought I might throw the question out there, see if anyone had some comments or real world experience on this subject before I dropped $212 on an eBrake controller solution.

 

That's what I was thinking - but since it does in fact - modulate for *sway* stability, it does tap the brakes to maintain sway control - which is good. I sent emails to both Tacoma Engineering and RedArc. Although I think that this is more a RedArc question than a Toyota one. Could be both of them.

 

So doing more searching around - adding to the wealth of data uncovered:

========================================================
■ Trailer Sway Control (vehicles with towing hitch and 7 pin connector)
Helps the driver to control trailer sway by selectively applying brake pressure for individual wheels and reducing engine torque when trailer sway is detected.
Trailer Sway Control is part of the VSC system and will not operate if VSC is turned off or experiences a malfunction.

The Tacoma trailer sway control is a program in the brake computer that monitors the sway at the rear of the truck. It uses the Vehicle Stability Control yaw sensor and basically uses the anti-lock brakes on the truck and the brakes on the trailer to bring the trailer under control if it starts to sway. The 7-way connector needs to be plugged into the trailer for the sway control to be active, the system uses this to sense that a trailer is hooked up.
========================================================

So the TSC uses VSC when the trailer is hooked up, if I'm reading this correctly - VSC is *only* on the truck itself, not the trailer. The Trailer does not selectively use either of its brakes, so whatever pressure you use on the front brakes - the trailer brakes will use the same force. Proportional braking.

This all sounds good - and works fine as I've experienced so far.

Dug into the REDARC Tow-Pro range Elite documentation. There are two modes of use for it.

• Proportional Mode (Blue LED):

If the status indication LED on the control knob is glowing BLUE, the Tow-Pro® Elite is in Proportional Mode. In Proportional Mode, the Tow-Pro® Elite will apply the trailer brakes at a level proportional to the vehicle deceleration. The control knob setting, 0 to 10, will set the brakes from a lighter to a heavier trailer brake application. Simply put, the harder the vehicle brakes are applied, the harder the trailer will brake. This mode is designed for highway travelling or everyday use and requires minimal input from the user whilst travelling.

==> *IF* installed, the Tacoma towing package with the TSC/VSC: As you brake - the Tacoma brakes in proportional mode with a trailer as well. However - the Tow-Pro Elite *does not* do anything about sway control or utilize the VSC. *ALL* the Tow-Pro Elite does at this point is allow you to override and control the brake sensitivity on the trailer brakes. That's all (This is subject to change if REDARC responds to the email I sent them). From the above description on the TSC, it corrects individual braking on the truck (left or right side) - and applies both brakes on the trailer to straighten it out and effectively stop the sway. By using the REDARC Tow-Pro Elite - it appears you can set the sensitivity on the rear trailer brakes from 0-10 in Proportional Mode. This would be useful in situations where you want the brakes to be heavier and brake harder if the load was heavier and when going downhill, or less on the brakes going uphill.

• User Controlled Mode (Green LED):

If the status indication LED on the control knob is glowing GREEN, the Tow-Pro® Elite is in User Controlled Mode. In User Controlled Mode, the Tow-Pro® Elite will apply the trailer brakes to the level set by the user on the gain control knob. The control knob setting, 0 to 10, will set the brakes from Zero to Full trailer brake application. Simply put, the trailer will brake to the level set by the control knob (regardless of how hard the vehicle brakes). This mode is often preferred for off road or precision use and may require frequent attention from the user.

==> The way I read this, this is mostly for off-roading or difficult situations where you need specific braking control and that you set the exact brake sensitivity in the rear trailer brakes to an exact setting - and it brakes at that setting every time. From nothing - to full on stop (0-10) no more proportional mode. So lets say in a situation, you drove on sand - you didn't want the trailer to dig into the sand when you braked - you set the trailer brake sensitivity to 1-3 so it just kind of rolls over sand when you brake versus - going downhill, you want to kind of drag the trailer - so you set it to 7-10. Now every time you tap the brakes, it puts a lot more pressure on the rear trailer brakes.


Lastly - the Tacoma had an OEM version of the trailer brake controller (89547-0C012):


Looked kind of clunky - and most likely why it was replaced by other 3rd party solutions. With the addition of 'Crawl Control' on the TRD models, they (Toyota) probably sunset/discontinued this product because of low sales. This module (like the REDARC or TEKONSHA PRODIGY P3) both plug into the CANBUS to utilize the same wiring harness to the trailer.

Now that I've dived in deeper into this trailer braking issue, I can see that the REDARC Tow-Pro Elite just gives more granulated brake control of the trailer in both situations - and I can see why this product was made - and I believe the answer to my original question is that NO - the REDARC or TEKONSHA PRODIGY P3 will *not* interfere with the TSC, but is just an enhancement/granulation to trailer braking.

 

The Hero we needed.

 

I’m glad you worked that out for yourself.

 

Well - as has been said many times before... if you want it done right - do it yourself. But - now the question has been answered (so far).

 

What bugs me the most is that when you ask a technical question - very few people would know the answer. Sometimes, its a DEV only question, and nobody really knows why it was designed like that - or why they changed it. To me, it seemed like a simple question - but, I did some searches and turned up very little at first.

As with anything technical, I dug into the manuals - compiled the data, looked at real life towing issues - and concerns - and then analyzed what each product brought to the table to solve a particular problem.

In this case - there was a problem that had already been solved by Toyota - but other companies came out with 3rd party solutions to provide the exact same solution but in a nicer package and my initial question about TSC had never been truly answered before. Hopefully - in a few years, someone might find this information useful if they ask the same question. It bugged me enough to know the answer - so now its all in one post.

 

Quite frankly, I was able to deduce how the TSC system operates by simple intuition. Truck is affected by swaying trailer, truck then applies brakes to compensate. TSC has nothing to do with braking the trailer itself.

Need the trailer to apply brakes to itself? Install a brake controller.

Too easy.

 

Uh no. But nice try there dude.
"Need the trailer to apply brakes to itself? Install a brake controller." The brake controller only allows you granulating control over the trailer brakes. Without the brake controller, they *STILL* allow you to brake though.

According to Serra Toyota (Understanding Trailer-Sway control (TSC)? (serratoyota.com)):
"Trailer Sway Control first detects the sway and then puts measures in place to control the situation. Toyota TSC has a two-step process. First it detects the trailer sway often before the driver will. Then it automatically applies brake pressure to the individual trailer wheels. It also eases the engine torque. All these actions combined help to steady the trailer and the trailer cargo.

At the same time TSC is working to bring the trailer under control, it is also communicating with cars behind the trailer. The brake lights will go on to alert vehicles behind it that it is slowing down."

I'm still not 100% sure that TSC has individual brake control on all brake systems for trailers - but - from what I have reading up on... so far..., its not all brake systems.

There are three common types of trailer brake systems used on light-duty vehicles: surge, electric and electric over hydraulic. Surge brakes are typically used on boat trailers and don't require the use of a trailer brake controller; all the necessary adjustments are automatic and typically sit inside the trailer. Electric trailer brakes are the most common type; they're found on most travel and work trailers. Electric over hydraulic brakes provide stronger brake pressure than electric brakes and therefore are used on larger, heavier trailers; they typically have disk brakes but can use drum brakes as well. Not all brake controllers work with electric over hydraulic brakes, so be sure the controller you choose is compatible with your brakes.

Maybe your simple intuition needs a... brake check?

 

I find it curious that you'll quote some random dealership's marketing explanation of TSC, instead of referring to the Owner's Manual.

TSC is a vehicle stability control system (it controls the vehicle brakes and throttle output). It is not a trailer brake system. That's what brake controllers are for.

Consider my brake check complete.

 

@Londo-Cat if you don't have a trailer brake controller installed your trailer brakes (unless surge brakes) are not doing anything and you're relying solely on the truck's brakes.

 

Ah yes - this reminds me of those fun conversations with my older brother who is desperate to be *right* rather than be correct.

I remember this fun conversation with him a few decades ago when he tried to argue:

• Combine (Combine Harvester)
• Concubine
• Geisha

We went back and forth... for two and a half hours with him saying that there was no such thing as a Concubine, it was a Combine - and a Geisha was not a dancing or entertainment girl - but a prostitute. Finally, I just pulled out the ole dictionary - for those *detailed* descriptions of each item in question. When faced with the facts, he reverted to that I was wrong and he was *right*. Oh well, I tried.

Anyway... lets jump into your response...

• "TSC is a vehicle stability control system" Well No, TSC stands for Trailer Sway Control, it is however *part* of the VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) system. Another forum user did in fact opine this "The Tacoma trailer sway control is a program in the brake computer that monitors the sway at the rear of the truck. It uses the Vehicle Stability Control yaw sensor and basically uses the anti-lock brakes on the truck and the brakes on the trailer to bring the trailer under control if it starts to sway. The 7-way connector needs to be plugged into the trailer for the sway control to be active, the system uses this to sense that a trailer is hooked up."

• "it controls the vehicle brakes and throttle output" Yes, sort of, per your screenshot, yes it does reduce engine torque and "Helps the driver to control trailer sway by selectively applying brake pressure for individual wheels and reducing engine torque when trailer sway is detected." Nowhere in that description does it tell you *what* individual wheels (truck or trailer) or which is being selectively applying brake pressure for. Also, refer to the blue italic above for a more defined response on TSC. This also depends if its a 4-way (no brake trailer) vs 7-way (ebrake trailer) configuration. If its a 4-way, then no TSC it's only VSC since TSC is not active.

Yes on page 317 of the Tacoma owners manual, it does indeed say that. I did look that up as well - and it didn't *answer* my original question that I posted (see post #1...). Owners manuals are in and of themselves, not very detailed (For the sake of brevity one would think), and don't dive into anything all that technical. Hence why they are just *owners manuals*. You want very or specific detailed explanations, you have to go somewhere else (like the company developers, or service manuals, etc). The answer can become more and more convoluted as the towing situation, or trailer weight or the braking system that is installed on the trailer come into play or are more complex.



However... it's the verbiage in the owners manual that is in question. It's very basic. Not very detailed - and it didn't answer my *ORIGINAL* question that I had posted (once again refer to post #1).
"Helps the driver to control trailer sway by selectively applying brake pressure for individual wheels and reducing engine torque when trailer sway is detected."

MORE Questions...
1) For TSC to be *active* a trailer HAS TO BE attached? <== This was actually answered by another forum member: "The Tacoma trailer sway control is a program in the brake computer that monitors the sway at the rear of the truck. It uses the Vehicle Stability Control yaw sensor and basically uses the anti-lock brakes on the truck and the brakes on the trailer to bring the trailer under control if it starts to sway. The 7-way connector needs to be plugged into the trailer for the sway control to be active, the system uses this to sense that a trailer is hooked up."
2) Which selectively applied wheels are those? My belief is that TSC applies brake pressure to both the rear trailer brakes during a sway control moment - since there is no selective control of either trailer brake through the 7-way plug.
3) The trailer *is* attached? For TSC to be active - the trailer has to be attached and plugged into the 7-way connector.
4) The trailer *has* wheels? If it didn't have wheels, it would be a skid plate, right?
5) It has a *braking system*? (this IS subject to debate, as not *all* trailers have a braking system. Some smaller trailers do *not* have brakes per 49 "CFR § 393.42 - Brakes required on all wheels")

Now, the argument would be null if the trailer does NOT have a braking system, then the trailer would have a 4-way plug and the TSC would not be active and only VSC would apply brakes to the vehicle versus the 7-way plug trailer, which does have a brake connector pinout. Then the TSC/VSC would be active.

 

If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black... Please give us another rambling soliloquy to illustrate who is more "desperate to be right" here.

To ensure we get the *correct* info out there, please offer some information from an authoritative source (Toyota), as I have tried to do with the factory manual. Does the manual offer a clear-cut answer to all your questions? No...it definitely doesn't. It evidently provides ample room for interpretation though.

 

If you don't have a trailer brake controller installed the trailer brakes sit there doing nothing.

 

OK - I just talked with one of the mechanics at the dealership near me. This is what he said: "Unless you have the Toyota factory brake controller or a third party one, you'll need a brake controller installed in your 2020 Toyota Tacoma to control the travel trailer's electric brakes."

I asked about TSC: "The TSC is activated if you plug in a 7-pin connector - but it only works with the trucks VSC brakes (each individual brake is controlled by the braking Control Unit) - however - when you have a brake controller - it does also tap the brakes on the trailer as well, this is so it can straighten out the truck and trailer.

Essentially the VSC cuts the throttle for a moment, applies brakes to the truck on the opposite of the sway in regards to the Yaw sensor - and if you have a brake controller, it also taps the brakes on that to straighten out the truck and trailer. That's how the TSC is supposed to work - in theory. But, if you have a trailer without brakes, then the TSC is not active and only VSC tries to control the truck's sway via the yaw sensor."

I asked that if the 7-pin has a brake controller line, why isn't it active then? "Because they want you to buy a brake controller to use the eBrakes on the trailer. Nothing is for free man. But - it's pre-wired up because if you buy the - supposedly - Toyota brake controller, its already wired to utilize it. So its plug and play then."

I then asked the question - ok, so do I need a brake controller?
"This all depends on what you are hauling, weight and road conditions, up hills, down hills, off-road. Anything over 1500 lbs - I'd say yes. California state law says anything over 1500 lbs, install a brake controller. If all YOU haul is 1000 lbs plus the trailer - I'd say no."

 

I did ask another question - but it was about proportional ebrakes vs hydraulic surge brakes. "Most boat trailers have the surge brakes. Surge Brakes are hydraulic and use the trailer's natural momentum to actuate the brakes. When you step on the brake in your tow vehicle and slow down, the trailer pushes against the hitch and presses a hydraulic cylinder. Larger leisure trailers also have them as well - and you don't need a brake controller for them. However - the Tacoma is only rated for 6800 lbs max so keep that in mind."

Ok, my original question has been answered. "if the TSC is installed - do I *NEED* a REDARC Tow-Pro range Elite *OR* will this conflict with the TSC?"

The answer to that question is NO.

Do *I* need a brake controller? No, not at this exact moment. 99% of the time, all I tow around is a small trailer that is less than 1500 lbs, the larger trailers I towed had Surge Brakes.

Thanks everyone for your input and help in answering my questions.